Third Party Press

Pre War Browning High Power questions

T

Tdarmo

Active member
Hi does anyone know what the W mark means its on the left side of the trigger guard. This serial number on the barrel also should be on the other side (hidden} There are no Nazi marks anywhere or military proofs. I m not sure if it made it out before occupation as a commercial or Germans finished it without there inspections
IMG_3262.jpgIMG_3263.jpgIMG_3266.jpg
 
Gonna lead with I know nothing about this firearm..... but my ignorant question is... why would a Browning have Nazi marks?
 
Thanks for the info. I for some reason thought Browning high power l was American. As I said....im uninformed in this matter. But now less so. 😁
 
I wasnt sure if this was part of a contract. The barrels on commercial guns (I thought ) had serials on opposite side. Also any idea what this stamp is?IMG_3271.jpgIMG_3267.jpg
 
Pre-war Browning High Powers were used by several different armies. During the war, they were manufactured at Herstal under German occupation as has been mentioned, and also the Inglis firm in Canada for British Commonwealth forces in the same calibre during the same period. The Canadian pistols retained the shoulder stock cut throughout manufacture while those produced at Herstal eliminated it fairly early. German manufacture ended during the late summer of 1944 due to the approach of allied forces. The High Power was very popular with both sides.
 
From what i could find the Germans took over production at 44500 my comes in at 44072. So did it leave before the occupation or did the Germans assemble it if only it could talk
 
Tdarmo said:
From what i could find the Germans took over production at 44500 my comes in at 44072. So did it leave before the occupation or did the Germans assemble it if only it could talk
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Actually the serial number was closer to 48000 but there were many contract pistols with low serial numbers. Then post war numbers varied or were reset. It takes an HP specialist to sort this stuff out. Use Jan Stills's forum or ask cpw, president of the collector's association.
 
Still gives German production beginning in the 45,000 range with WaA613 proofs using pre-occupation parts with slotted frames. Judging by this, an un-waffenamted M35 in the 44,000 serial range would be entirely correct as being at the termination of Belgian military production.
 
oldcorps said:
Still gives German production beginning in the 45,000 range with WaA613 proofs using pre-occupation parts with slotted frames. Judging by this, an un-waffenamted M35 in the 44,000 serial range would be entirely correct as being at the termination of Belgian military production.
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Not consistent with my data but it could be late Belgian. It could also be many more things. If no MR on the trigger guard, I am skeptical. No WAa inspection, probably not German. I am no expert on HPs. Ask Charlie or the author Anthony V.. Charlie/cpw is the best source and president of the Browning collectors association and my table mate at SOS/NGD. He has serial number 1 and several below serial number 10. He has prototypes. He knows his stuff beyond Anthony IMO. Ask the right folks on Jan's.
 
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oldcorps said:
Interesting. I've got 465XXXB with brown bakelite grips that's from near the end of German production.
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A B suffix is very late. I have one and a 103 slotted and a nice A suffix. The Germans picked up production about when I said, ran it over 100000 with no suffix, then to about 99,999a, then to the B suffix ending before 60000b.
 
Here are some more pictures. This has the early tangent sight. Ill retake pictures (better pictures) of the whole gun this week. Hopefully they will tell what time period or if it was a contract gun.IMG_3265.jpg
 
It looks like a postwar commercial or contract piece. It lacks Belgian military inspections. The first German occupation pieces were standard Belgian GP.35s in about that range but with a WaA613 inspect or a straight up Belgian military captured. This has neither and that barrel serial is not pre-war Belgian. FN made runs of these slotted tangent pistols into the 90s though the style of yours is wartime / early postwar. My vote is the latter.
 
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Still trying to understand what I have. So you're saying Browning didn't make a pre war commercial ? If post war with slot (Im sure they would offer stock for the slot} this hollister and backboard would be illegal is some states being considered a short rifle. Looking to find out law on this,I stumbled on this


SECTION III: Weapons Removed From The NFA As Collector's Items And Classified As Curios Or Relics Under The GCA
The Bureau has determined that by reason of the date of their manufacture, value, design and other characteristics, the following firearms are primarily collector's items and are not likely to be used as weapons and, therefore, are excluded from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.

Further, the Bureau has determined that such firearms are also curios or relics as defined in 27 CFR 178.11. Thus, licensed collectors may acquire, hold or dispose to them as curios or relics subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR Part 178. They are still "firearms" as defined in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.

Any military bolt action or semiautomatic rifle mfd. prior to 1946 and accompanied by a "cup type" grenade launcher designed for the specific rifle. Belgian, Pre-war mfd. Hi Power pistols, in cal. 9mm having tangent sights graduated to 500 meters, slotted for shoulder stock, having S/Ns of less than 47,000 without letter prefixes or suffixes and accompanied by original Belgian mfd. detachable wooden flat board type shoulder stocks.
 
Tdarmo said:
Still trying to understand what I have. So you're saying Browning didn't make a pre war commercial ? If post war with slot (Im sure they would offer stock for the slot} this hollister and backboard would be illegal is some states being considered a short rifle. Looking to find out law on this,I stumbled on this


SECTION III: Weapons Removed From The NFA As Collector's Items And Classified As Curios Or Relics Under The GCA
The Bureau has determined that by reason of the date of their manufacture, value, design and other characteristics, the following firearms are primarily collector's items and are not likely to be used as weapons and, therefore, are excluded from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.

Further, the Bureau has determined that such firearms are also curios or relics as defined in 27 CFR 178.11. Thus, licensed collectors may acquire, hold or dispose to them as curios or relics subject to the provisions of 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR Part 178. They are still "firearms" as defined in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.

Any military bolt action or semiautomatic rifle mfd. prior to 1946 and accompanied by a "cup type" grenade launcher designed for the specific rifle. Belgian, Pre-war mfd. Hi Power pistols, in cal. 9mm having tangent sights graduated to 500 meters, slotted for shoulder stock, having S/Ns of less than 47,000 without letter prefixes or suffixes and accompanied by original Belgian mfd. detachable wooden flat board type shoulder stocks.
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Browning had the patent and is the commercial distributor of this pistol. FN is the maker. I'm not saying that FN/Browning did not make a pre-war commercial at all. I'm saying they made postwar commercials like this. I'm saying that the serial range of yours and the appearance of the serial on the barrel visible at the ejection port is not prewar Belgian and is something the Germans instituted. However, this one has no German inspections, no German commercial inspection. If made pre-war/wartime it would have different markings and that serial range for wartime would put it in the range of pistols where the barrel serial number was not visible like that. It has the standard Belgian proofs. The "E" on its side was for August Jamart who inspected between 1924-1959. So your pistol was made no later than 1959. The "W" inspect on the frame could be for Nicholas Wolfs (1952-1968). So we have a time frame.

I know you know that FN sold pistols to many other countries (like the rest of the free world and everyone else too) other than the US which did not have the same laws as us. So, FN did not conform their products to US laws unless they were selling the product in the US, to be distributed by Browning here. That ATF reg on stocked pistols is irrelevant to buyers not in the US.

It would be very helpful if you provided pictures of the entire pistol, including the slide legend on the left, any other markings, and the sight slide.
 
Tdarmo said:
Here are some more pictures. This has the early tangent sight. Ill retake pictures (better pictures) of the whole gun this week. Hopefully they will tell what time period or if it was a contract gun.View attachment 170084
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Actually, that could be called the "late" tangent sight, the one designed and manufactured for pistols to be sold without the stock. The other has the gap at the top and it was designed for contract pistols sold with the shoulder stock. Both were made at the same time.
 
Hambone said:
Browning had the patent and is the commercial distributor of this pistol. FN is the maker. I'm not saying that FN/Browning did not make a pre-war commercial at all. I'm saying they made postwar commercials like this. I'm saying that the serial range of yours and the appearance of the serial on the barrel visible at the ejection port is not prewar Belgian and is something the Germans instituted. However, this one has no German inspections, no German commercial inspection. If made pre-war/wartime it would have different markings and that serial range for wartime would put it in the range of pistols where the barrel serial number was not visible like that. It has the standard Belgian proofs. The "E" on its side was for August Jamart who inspected between 1924-1959. So your pistol was made no later than 1959. The "W" inspect on the frame could be for Nicholas Wolfs (1952-1968). So we have a time frame.

I know you know that FN sold pistols to many other countries (like the rest of the free world and everyone else too) other than the US which did not have the same laws as us. So, FN did not conform their products to US laws unless they were selling the product in the US, to be distributed by Browning here. That ATF reg on stocked pistols is irrelevant to buyers not in the US.

It would be very helpful if you provided pictures of the entire pistol, including the slide legend on the left, any other markings, and the sight slide.
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I will be getting full pictures of the gun later on tonight. Another thing would a post war gun have the updated extractor ? Or what period in time did they change over ?
 
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