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New Member with a Simsonwerke Shul DSM - want to learn more about this rifle.

A

Andreet

Member
I'm new to the Forums (just joined last night).

My Grandfather brought this rifle - along with other German guns - back home with him after WW2.
It has been in our family ever since.

I am trying to learn more about this rifle.
You guys are the experts so I am asking you guys for some information.

Please teach me.

I am not interested in selling this rifle - way too much sentimental value.
Attached are pictures of it.

From what I can tell based in the information I was able to learn from this forum - it looks like the bolt is original to this rifle. There is a number 865 stamped into it and the serial number stamping of 124865 ends with the same last 3 digits.

Looking down the barrel the rifling looks to be in excellent shape. The swirled grooves look sharp and clean.

What year was this rifle made?
Is there a way to tell if it was issued to the German Military?
For insurance purposes only - based on these pictures - what would be the replacement value of this rifle?
I'd potentially like to get it insured.

Is there a place I can get a cleaning kit for it and instruction on how to properly clean it?
What should I wipe this gun down with to preserve it?

Sorry if these questions seem stupid - but I am trying to learn about this rifle and am definitely not an expert!

I'm really looking forward to hearing from you guys.

Thanks in advance!

Tom
 

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Thanks for posting. If you have more pictures, I'm sure there will be interest in seeing them. The DSM was in production from 1934. Your rifle is on the early end of its range. Our moderators mauser22 and 99 have great expertise and I'm sure will comment. Insure your rifle for around $1200 (that's higher than current market). Welcome to the forum.
 
simson

yes, thats a nice rifle and kind of a hard one to find.. there is a serial list posted here and if you dont mind Id like to add it.. I have one and Ive only seen a handfull of all my years of looking.. What else was in the collection ?
 
Thanks for the replies very helpful to me.

Mauser99 - YES please add the serial number to your list.

In addition to the rifle I have a German Military Issued Spanish Astra and a Luger. Both are absolutely pristine with excellent blueing and the hand grips are perfect.
The're both in their original holsters. I tried to send some more pictures of the rifle and these (2) handguns but couldn't.
It looks like there is a restriction on how may photos I can upload in a thread.

My Grandfather had brought back more, but in the early 60's my Great-Grandmother basically got rid of the "junk" around the house. So a few more hand guns and a couple more rifles (plus some other stuff) were lost during that time. The only other things I have left now are at German Canteen, Bayonette, some German Medals and a Flag.

He was at D-Day and came home without a scratch after the war ended. I have pictures of him and his buddies as they were walking the streets of Paris, after it was liberated. Being a combat engineer had to be tough - he told my grandmother what it was like to be deployed behind the enemy with orders to the keep roads and bridges open for the advance. You gotta believe the Germans weren't to happy to come across these guys - playing around in their backyard - after they were being pushed back by the advance. Wanna stop the advance? Kill these guys, Mine the roads, and Take out the bridges after you cross them. It is amazing he went through all that and came back without a scratch.
 

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Andreet- Id love to see some pics of the luger. Theres no limit on pics in a thread, what you're running into is that the files are too big. Resize them a bit so theyre a little smaller and you will have no problem.

Andreet said:
Thanks for the replies very helpful to me.

Mauser99 - YES please add the serial number to your list.

In addition to the rifle I have a German Military Issued Spanish Astra and a Luger. Both are absolutely pristine with excellent blueing and the hand grips are perfect.
The're both in their original holsters. I tried to send some more pictures of the rifle and these (2) handguns but couldn't.
It looks like there is a restriction on how may photos I can upload in a thread.

My Grandfather had brought back more, but in the early 60's my Great-Grandmother basically got rid of the "junk" around the house. So a few more hand guns and a couple more rifles (plus some other stuff) were lost during that time. The only other things I have left now are at German Canteen, Bayonette, some German Medals and a Flag.

He was at D-Day and came home without a scratch after the war ended. I have pictures of him and his buddies as they were walking the streets of Paris, after it was liberated. Being a combat engineer had to be tough - he told my grandmother what it was like to be deployed behind the enemy with orders to the keep roads and bridges open for the advance. You gotta believe the Germans weren't to happy to come across these guys - playing around in their backyard - after they were being pushed back by the advance. Wanna stop the advance? Kill these guys, Mine the roads, and Take out the bridges after you cross them. It is amazing he went through all that and came back without a scratch.
Click to expand...
 
By the way does anyome know what the 'B' and 'U' and what look like little crowns - stampings are? what do they mean?
 
Andreet said:
By the way does anyome know what the 'B' and 'U' and what look like little crowns - stampings are? what do they mean?
Click to expand...

These marks are commercial proofs. See the pic below for a description.

upto1940proofmarks.jpg
 
Very Nice Rifle

Thanks for posting. You are already getting good information. Read through the sticky's and search on Simson DSM here and you will find more relevant information. Welcome to the forum!
 
Good stuff

What kind of Astra? Could you post it also. Another thing to do(on picture size if u are like me and lucky to FIND dang pictures) is do what it lets you do...and then send another response,and again and until you get done with what u were doing!Welcome to THE FORUM! :happy0180:
 
Another Simson Trainer

I too just joined the forum last night and read this thread to try to learn about a Simson trainer that I saw over the weekend. It is SN 124841 with the same nomenclature on the barrel and receiver as that posted at the start of this thread. Additionally at the base of the pistol grip there is a very small logo with the triange inside a circle overall about 3mm in diameter. I believe this is the early Simson logo. It also has 22/97 on the left stock just forward of the buttplate.
This rifle has a sling and I would appreciate if anyone can give me particulars on the sling that should have come with this rifle.
The metal is about 90% and the wood is about 80%. If anyone has an idea of valuation it would be very helpful. I have been most interested in sporting .22's, largely American, and have almost no experience with the trainers.

Thank you in advance for your help. This is really an impressive forum and I hope to be able to contribute.
 
trainer

first off welcome. !! yes the small triangle in a circle is the simson logo. it shows up on thses stocks well into the BSW name change. As they used up all the parrts. There has to be a pic. of an original sling here just look. Its nothing special just a strip of leather fed through an H buckle and then throught the stock and attached to the stud on the other side. Some have a faint crosshatch on them or just 2 lines running on the top and bottom. They didnt survive well.. If ts for sale and you can get it for a good price grab it ! Advice for the day.. those numbers on the stock are S/A gruppe numbers. JoeW might be able to shed light on who the group is.
 
mauser99 said:
first off welcome. !! ..............Advice for the day.. those numbers on the stock are S/A gruppe numbers. JoeW might be able to shed light on who the group is.
Click to expand...

I think 22/97 might also be a property marking for a HJ unit, especially as we see the SA trainers also receiving the larger circular property stamp tbat incorporates the Gruppe name.

For HJ association, that marking would indicate Gefolgschaft 22/ of HJ Bann 97 located in Neubrandenburg.
For SA association, the marking would indicate Sturm 22/ of SA Standarte 97 located in Munchen-Gladback.

I would be prone to choose HJ association.

Joe
 
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Thanks joe..

We are lucky to have some very knowledgable members. His explaination is as good as it gets. Here are some photos of the sling. On a rifle.

Also: one version of the simson logo used on their small caliber pistol.
 

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In addition to mauser99's pictures of a sling on the rifle above, here a couple of pics of a DSM sling by itself. Last month, I posted a picture (on another thread in the forum) of a DSM sling that has a one inch section that had been protected for decades by the stock giving a view closer to original condition. I'm sure there were several producers of slings resulting in modest variation in features, but the basic design seems to be consistent.

90e7acce71c6e767efa50d5ac6d877b6.jpg


2b5e85dcd8005f4417b4a4f2fc1923b8.jpg
 
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