Third Party Press

Going rate on an RC K98?

Cyrano4747 said:
Off topic, but there should be, because that can save your life. I suspect most of us here are old enough that it's something we should be looking into.

Mostly on my mind because a close friend lost his dad way, way too early to something that could have been detected in time if he'd just gritted his teeth and let a doctor stick a finger up his butt.

Get your oil checked, there's way too many entries in the memorial board as it is.



GB is GB with all its own problems, but you can get a pretty decent snapshot by running a custom search for closed auctions and sort by number of bids. That's where you tend to turn up the rifles that started low and got enough interest that it's not just one person getting lucky with a snipe on a poorly listed gun. It's not perfect, but it's reasonably easy to do.

Here are a few that I pulled doing that just now, all RC. A few of them have issues (buttplate on one looks to have been polished, some stock refinishing, etc) but it's still a set of decently hand-wavy data points: (edit: click to go to the listings, god this forum does not display clickable URLs as text well)

BNZ 44, $765
S42/G$ 715. This is the one with the refinished stock and polished buttplate
S42 $705

All three of those are fairly established sellers and the buyers have feedback from multiple different buyers, so likely not shill bidding or a scam listing etc.

Of course you'll also get to see some idiots, like This Mitchell's DUV 41 that went for $1185.

I've helped a few friends pick up RCs in the last year on GB at about this price point. They're out there, and it's doable. You're not going to log in and grab one every day at that price, but with a little work it's still very possible to get in at the $700-800 ballpark ,and $600 if you get lucky with a badly crafted listing.
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Well put together piece. Right off the bat I kinda liked that bnz4. Flat buttplate stock. Imperial recoil lug. Looks like someone rubbed some of the RC off it. What's with the receiver being beat to shite? Looks like someone took a hammer to it.

Also totally agree about getting your shite checked. Colonoscopy too.
 
well no data from the VGCA today. Not a single RC. In fact not one K98k or Gew 98 or even. Gew 88 in the entire show. This is a real gun show, no beanie baby or jerky dealers allowed. Only one table with black guns.
Lots of nice WWll US and older Smiths, Colts etc.

Will see what Fishersville has to offer tomorrow.
 
I have seen some of the rarer RC coded rifle go for upwards of $1800 to $2000 in some cases , but you have to either be ignorant or money is no concern to someone that would pay that kind of price regardless if its a rare code or not .
 
Cyrano4747 said:
Here are a few that I pulled doing that just now, all RC. A few of them have issues (buttplate on one looks to have been polished, some stock refinishing, etc) but it's still a set of decently hand-wavy data points: (edit: click to go to the listings, god this forum does not display clickable URLs as text well)

BNZ 44, $765
S42/G$ 715. This is the one with the refinished stock and polished buttplate
S42 $705

All three of those are fairly established sellers and the buyers have feedback from multiple different buyers, so likely not shill bidding or a scam listing etc.

Of course you'll also get to see some idiots, like This Mitchell's DUV 41 that went for $1185.

I've helped a few friends pick up RCs in the last year on GB at about this price point. They're out there, and it's doable. You're not going to log in and grab one every day at that price, but with a little work it's still very possible to get in at the $700-800 ballpark ,and $600 if you get lucky with a badly crafted listing.
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None of those examples includes tax, shipping or transfer fees to a non-FFL holder. That's going to push every one of them well beyond $800. I stick by my assertion earlier that a $600 RC is a fairytale these days.
 
runner said:
well no data from the VGCA today. Not a single RC. In fact not one K98k or Gew 98 or even. Gew 88 in the entire show. This is a real gun show, no beanie baby or jerky dealers allowed. Only one table with black guns.
Lots of nice WWll US and older Smiths, Colts etc.

Will see what Fishersville has to offer tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Sounds like they haven't changed, went to one (VGCA) 20-25 years ago and they were serious shows then too... too bad results in a serious venue couldn't be measured.
 
Cyrano4747 said:
Off topic, but there should be, because that can save your life. I suspect most of us here are old enough that it's something we should be looking into.

Mostly on my mind because a close friend lost his dad way, way too early to something that could have been detected in time if he'd just gritted his teeth and let a doctor stick a finger up his butt.

Get your oil checked, there's way too many entries in the memorial board as it is.



GB is GB with all its own problems, but you can get a pretty decent snapshot by running a custom search for closed auctions and sort by number of bids. That's where you tend to turn up the rifles that started low and got enough interest that it's not just one person getting lucky with a snipe on a poorly listed gun. It's not perfect, but it's reasonably easy to do.

Here are a few that I pulled doing that just now, all RC. A few of them have issues (buttplate on one looks to have been polished, some stock refinishing, etc) but it's still a set of decently hand-wavy data points: (edit: click to go to the listings, god this forum does not display clickable URLs as text well)

BNZ 44, $765
S42/G$ 715. This is the one with the refinished stock and polished buttplate
S42 $705

All three of those are fairly established sellers and the buyers have feedback from multiple different buyers, so likely not shill bidding or a scam listing etc.

Of course you'll also get to see some idiots, like This Mitchell's DUV 41 that went for $1185.

I've helped a few friends pick up RCs in the last year on GB at about this price point. They're out there, and it's doable. You're not going to log in and grab one every day at that price, but with a little work it's still very possible to get in at the $700-800 ballpark ,and $600 if you get lucky with a badly crafted listing.
Click to expand...

While having your oil checked is important it seems unnecessary for most with new blood testing... my doctors (seems like I get a new one every year) seem to be able to do it in blood screening and I haven't had the dilemma in 25 years (where I learned about false advertising in the medical profession... doctor looked like a chubby Michelle Pfeiffer and when I said sure, she had her fat Heinrich Himmler lookalike P.A do the "in-depth" analysis...)

I have no doubts that $800 is a common enough price for an exceptional example, but common enough to be called "average" or normal price range? I think the best measure is to be made (measured) from collector venues and among collectors in general, - afterall there is a great many influencing factors involved, there is quite as many variations of rc's (importing markings, graffiti and different measures of finish as in attempts to de-rc them or make them more "correct" or "original" - I remember not long ago there was some debate on this trend...) as non-rc variables at play.

I suspect to go much above $600 there have to have to be something else going for it, but price inflation is present in all goods due to distortions caused by actual inflation (monetary inflation); the real question is not what they sell for today (on average) but how much in real terms after over a decade of insane inflating the money supply (comparing 2000 dollars to a 2020-2024 dollar or Euro)
 
runner said:
well no data from the VGCA today. Not a single RC. In fact not one K98k or Gew 98 or even. Gew 88 in the entire show. This is a real gun show, no beanie baby or jerky dealers allowed. Only one table with black guns.
Lots of nice WWll US and older Smiths, Colts etc.

Will see what Fishersville has to offer tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Just left the fishersville show:
No RCs
Two K98ks
Legit matching byf 44 l block. $1850
Dou 44, total mismatch, $1200
Also one “late war” Czech (post war, lion proofs)
$1200
 
runner said:
Just left the fishersville show:
No RCs
Two K98ks
Legit matching byf 44 l block. $1850
Dou 44, total mismatch, $1200
Also one “late war” Czech (post war, lion proofs)
$1200
Click to expand...
Sounds like even common "collectable" rifles have "inflated" values... plain-Jane dou/44 (total m/m no less) and byf/44 l-blocks are common makers even in upper grades; that a Czechie is offered at $1200 makes $600-800 rc's seem in the "bargain" range.

Pretty much what I expected, the increased valuation is less about demand than price inflation (dollar weakness). Still $800 equates to 200 gallons of gas, that is more than I value most rc's but at least gas is quickly burned and an rc will probably be a better investment the way things are going...
 
Loewe said:
Sounds like even common "collectable" rifles have "inflated" values... plain-Jane dou/44 (total m/m no less) and byf/44 l-blocks are common makers even in upper grades; that a Czechie is offered at $1200 makes $600-800 rc's seem in the "bargain" range.

Pretty much what I expected, the increased valuation is less about demand than price inflation (dollar weakness). Still $800 equates to 200 gallons of gas, that is more than I value most rc's but at least gas is quickly burned and an rc will probably be a better investment the way things are going...
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Were they actually getting those prices, though? The matching BYF44 for $1800 is about what I would expect, but the others are nuts.

You see no shortage of overpriced crap at gun shows looking for a sucker. I can remember seeing $400 RCs at a local gunshow back when you could get them for $120 direct from Century.

The issue is what things actually trade hands at, not what is being advertised by way of a fishing expedition.
 
Cyrano4747 said:
Were they actually getting those prices, though? The matching BYF44 for $1800 is about what I would expect, but the others are nuts.

You see no shortage of overpriced crap at gun shows looking for a sucker. I can remember seeing $400 RCs at a local gunshow back when you could get them for $120 direct from Century.

The issue is what things actually trade hands at, not what is being advertised by way of a fishing expedition.
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I agree, the RCs I see that are actually moving on Gunbroker seem to be in the $700 range. I have two common mismatch K98ks on consignment at a local shop for $800 and they are still there.

If I didn’t already have a matching byf 44, I would have probably picked up the one yesterday. It looked like an honest gun. Everything matched that should. The stock was not sanded, but it had been coated in , what I am guessing is varnish and the buttplate had been painted black. The son said his dad did that many years ago to “protect “ it.
Since the stock was not sanded, I think it could have been corrected pretty easily. I also think the rifle could have.been had for less, I purchased some other items from this guy and he was very willing to deal.
 
Cyrano4747 said:
Were they actually getting those prices, though? The matching BYF44 for $1800 is about what I would expect, but the others are nuts.

You see no shortage of overpriced crap at gun shows looking for a sucker. I can remember seeing $400 RCs at a local gunshow back when you could get them for $120 direct from Century.

The issue is what things actually trade hands at, not what is being advertised by way of a fishing expedition.
Click to expand...

That was the point from the beginning, the context of the sale, purchase and exchange... to say the going rate for an rc is $700-800 is as ambiguous as Franks observations. There are different "types" of rc's, and I suspect how importers marked them and whether they are in an "original" imported state matters (some try to "restore" rc's - my ar/43 has a replaced correct stock and bolt - it is a great shooter), many variables are at play (like finish, maker-date) and it is as true that whether those three rifles hadn't sold makes a difference as a blanket observation on rc valuations have reached a certain threshold,

***I am sure rc's have appreciated in value, we disagree on how much price inflation is the factor, I think there are multiple variables at play and to simply say an average rc trends are in the $700-800 range is no different than extrapolating gun show "askings" for sale prices as a basis for relative valuation.
 
runner said:
I agree, the RCs I see that are actually moving on Gunbroker seem to be in the $700 range.
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This is how the argument should have been stated, clear, concise and accurate... to make it broader opens the "fact" to interpretation. I am sure some rc's pull much more, many much less.
 
Loewe said:
This is how the argument should have been stated, clear, concise and accurate... to make it broader opens the "fact" to interpretation. I am sure some rc's pull much more, many much less.
Click to expand...

I don't know that I'd say they pull much less, at least for full rifles that aren't sporterized or something similar.
Loewe said:
***I am sure rc's have appreciated in value, we disagree on how much price inflation is the factor, I think there are multiple variables at play and to simply say an average rc trends are in the $700-800 range is no different than extrapolating gun show "askings" for sale prices as a basis for relative valuation.
Click to expand...

Inflation is certainly a factor, but it's not the driving factor behind antique gun prices. If you look at the price increases we see over the last 15-20 years on C&R firearms in general they far, far outpace the total rate of inflation, even with the post-2020 jump we've seen in that rate. Doubly so for rifles that were being imported in the 00s. Which, frankly, makes sense. These guns were cheap when they were being imported in large numbers because the available supply of them was relatively healthy compared to the number of people who wanted them. This isn't just a RC thing - the humble m44 mosin that you used to be able to buy at a gun show for $65 and get a 440 round spam can of ammo for another $40 sure as hell doesn't cost that much today, and can pretty easily fetch $300-400. Meanwhile, as much as other goods have also gone up in price in the last 20 years, they sure haven't quadrupled.

The other factor is just the growing interest in historical firearms. Look at how rapidly the price of a non-RC 98k has gone up. When I first started collecting back in ~2006 a bolt m/m was a $500-700 rifle and an all matching 98k was a $1000-1200 gun with the usual caveats that rare makers or condition can drive a price up or down - a pristine BSW and a thrashed but technically matching BYF 42 are two different beasts. Again, we can see substantial increase in price since then that's not just reflective of inflation, although that's a component of it.

edit: I'd argue that the likes of Forgotten Weapons and C&Rsenal have done more to jack up the price of C&R firearms over the last 10 years than inflation. That, and the increasing dry well of good, cheap entry-level guns for new shooters to get into. When an RC costs $700 on GB instead of $120 from Century you're going to have a lot more new buyers with some cash in their pockets saying "screw it" and just plunking down for a better condition gun to start with. I'm going out way more on a limb here with conjecture, but from what I've observed the steriotypical new person getting into these guns seems to be a 30 something guy in the tech industry with a very good paying job who frankly doesn't care so much about the price difference between a $1000 and a $2000 gun.
 
We disagree in significant ways, but that is ok, valuation is a very personal matter and open to a multiple numbers of variables, - almost all individualistic.
 
Cyrano4747 said:
I don't know that I'd say they pull much less, at least for full rifles that aren't sporterized or something similar.


Inflation is certainly a factor, but it's not the driving factor behind antique gun prices. If you look at the price increases we see over the last 15-20 years on C&R firearms in general they far, far outpace the total rate of inflation, even with the post-2020 jump we've seen in that rate. Doubly so for rifles that were being imported in the 00s. Which, frankly, makes sense. These guns were cheap when they were being imported in large numbers because the available supply of them was relatively healthy compared to the number of people who wanted them. This isn't just a RC thing - the humble m44 mosin that you used to be able to buy at a gun show for $65 and get a 440 round spam can of ammo for another $40 sure as hell doesn't cost that much today, and can pretty easily fetch $300-400. Meanwhile, as much as other goods have also gone up in price in the last 20 years, they sure haven't quadrupled.

The other factor is just the growing interest in historical firearms. Look at how rapidly the price of a non-RC 98k has gone up. When I first started collecting back in ~2006 a bolt m/m was a $500-700 rifle and an all matching 98k was a $1000-1200 gun with the usual caveats that rare makers or condition can drive a price up or down - a pristine BSW and a thrashed but technically matching BYF 42 are two different beasts. Again, we can see substantial increase in price since then that's not just reflective of inflation, although that's a component of it.

edit: I'd argue that the likes of Forgotten Weapons and C&Rsenal have done more to jack up the price of C&R firearms over the last 10 years than inflation. That, and the increasing dry well of good, cheap entry-level guns for new shooters to get into. When an RC costs $700 on GB instead of $120 from Century you're going to have a lot more new buyers with some cash in their pockets saying "screw it" and just plunking down for a better condition gun to start with. I'm going out way more on a limb here with conjecture, but from what I've observed the steriotypical new person getting into these guns seems to be a 30 something guy in the tech industry with a very good paying job who frankly doesn't care so much about the price difference between a $1000 and a $2000 gun.
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Interesting that you mention “the growing interest in historical firearms”. A couple years ago you would see numerous threads on this forum and others lamenting the fact that Mauser collecting was the same bunch of old guys and the values would collapse as we die off and the trophy wives dump our collections. Personally I hope the younger generation realizes the gun hobby is more than just accessorizing black rifles, and historic arms are just that, tangible relics of the world’s collective history. And, at least for the WWll era, that seems to be happening.

Conversely, for US Civil war arms, my other interest. The market has dived. CW era Colt revolvers are the exception, as they cross over into other collecting fields, but many original CW long arms are now cheaper than the Italian made reproductions.
 
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