M.38 FJR6 Camo

Fjm44 said:
Really nice helmet, Thanks for posting the link to the article. I have three more pieces I need to add.

I have checked with my resources; here are two possible matches both KIA in Normandy. Ancestry has no hits, but without a name it is quite hard.

Peter Franzen | Gräbersuche-Online

www.volksbund.de www.volksbund.de

Otto Franzen | Gräbersuche-Online

www.volksbund.de www.volksbund.de

The one that Guillaume suggests would be very unlikely as the Regiment only camouflaged their helmets in this pattern prior to the Normandy invasion. Then being a late war replacement into FJR6 would be unlikely to receive such a helmet.

Best Regards

Frederik
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Thank you Frederik! And fellas. I’ve linked other excellent articles from your site. I follow your offerings as well and have had good dealings with you. Good to have you at K98k.

As an aside, and any help is appreciated, I’ve been trying to connect up any service records with Karl Puls on this helmet. I enjoy the research on artifacts but have had more success with allied pieces.

www.k98kforum.com

M.40 Luft. DAK Camo, 88 Regt., Named, KIA,

Thanks to member Nzef here. One of my new favorites. M.40 Luft. 64/56 tan and green camo, typical of North Africa, particularly Tunisia. It is named to "Puls". If you look close you can see that before camo it was named to "Kan. Puls" (Kanonier), then evidently mustard/tan overpainted, named...
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Some of my favorite researched pieces:

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OT: Canadian Seaforth Highander MkII helmet ID'd

I picked up a helmet, quite reasonably priced ($90) that no one was bidding on (ID'd as an "American WW1 helmet"). It is a MkII, Canadian CL/C make, 1941 date, with a unit flash painted on the left side. It has a camoflage paint scheme done over a wide mesh net. The service number in the rim...
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Our reference pic sticky section. Your site has links in our Info section:

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COPYRIGHT NOTICE: The pictures posted are the sole property of the K98k Forum Member who posted them. Any use of these photographs other than reference here without the express permission of the K98k Forum Member will be treated as a violation of U.S. Copyright law. This thread is an index of...
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Fjm44 said:
Really nice helmet, Thanks for posting the link to the article. I have three more pieces I need to add.

I have checked with my resources; here are two possible matches both KIA in Normandy. Ancestry has no hits, but without a name it is quite hard.

Peter Franzen | Gräbersuche-Online

www.volksbund.de www.volksbund.de

Otto Franzen | Gräbersuche-Online

www.volksbund.de www.volksbund.de

The one that Guillaume suggests would be very unlikely as the Regiment only camouflaged their helmets in this pattern prior to the Normandy invasion. Then being a late war replacement into FJR6 would be unlikely to receive such a helmet.

Best Regards

Frederik
Click to expand...
Hi Fred, while doing your research, have you checked the biography of von der Heydte? From what I know about him, he had a bragging personality 😀
 
Off the wall question, did the FJR 6 operated around ST LO? I came across this map in a GI map case from a yard sale. It’s nicely marked with pencil of units and phase lines. All that being said sorry about the crap photos and glare, also the size. I have yet to figure out how to take large pictures and have them download without cropping the heck out of them. If you want more pictures I can post more.

God Bless
 

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GetFuzzy2 said:
Off the wall question, did the FJR 6 operated around ST LO? I came across this map in a GI map case from a yard sale. It’s nicely marked with pencil of units and phase lines. All that being said sorry about the crap photos and glare, also the size. I have yet to figure out how to take large pictures and have them download without cropping the heck out of them. If you want more pictures I can post more.

God Bless
Click to expand...
On D-Day, they were in Vierville sur Mer which is north of Saint-Lô.


But they are known for their role at Carentan:
en.m.wikipedia.org

Battle of Carentan - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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GetFuzzy2 said:
Off the wall question, did the FJR 6 operated around ST LO? I came across this map in a GI map case from a yard sale. It’s nicely marked with pencil of units and phase lines. All that being said sorry about the crap photos and glare, also the size. I have yet to figure out how to take large pictures and have them download without cropping the heck out of them. If you want more pictures I can post more.

God Bless
Click to expand...

That’s very cool GF. Probably shows places where this helmet was ! Thank you GO and Fred!
 
Found this pic of von der Heydte with Werner Ostendorff. Sold as repro without any indication of the source : SS PK reporter ? Private ?
Taken after shortly after D-Day in all likelihood.
It seems he has some camo applied to his helmet. No Luft eagle on the left side.


vDH Ostendorff 2.jpg
 
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Guillaume d'Orange said:
Found this pic of von der Heydte with Werner Ostendorff. Sold as repro without any indication of the source : SS PK reporter ? Private ?
Taken after shortly after D-Day in all likelihood.
It seems he has some camo applied to his helmet. No Luft eagle on the left side.
Click to expand...

Cool pic GO. That’s a “fresh” FJR6 camo that hasn’t oxidized from 80 years. I was reminded of this as I found an old pair of my golf shoes from the late 90s and the plastic / resin soles crumbled and disintegrated from age. All paint, including helmet paint, oxidizes and dulls out. That’s hard to replicate.
 
Hambone said:
Cool pic GO. That’s a “fresh” FJR6 camo that hasn’t oxidized from 80 years. I was reminded of this as I found an old pair of my golf shoes from the late 90s and the plastic / resin soles crumbled and disintegrated from age. All paint, including helmet paint, oxidizes and dulls out. That’s hard to replicate.
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And their paints contained lead. Given that they have disappeared, it is hard to know what a helmet will look like when the paint is still fresh and how it changes over decades.
IMHO, what it shows is that the first goal was probably to hide the original blue color of the helmet. And paratroopers may have done that already when they fought in North Africa and Sicily. The camo is not very sophisticated, like the ones of the SS jackets for example.
 
In NARA roll T-321 R-31, I've found an order from the XI. Flieger Korps to II./FJR6 (not involved later in Normandy) that shows that camouflage was ordered from above regimental level.
It says in particular : "Die Tarnung der Helme ist zu überwachen" (camouflage must be checked).

1743186661289.jpeg
 
Hambone said:
Thanks GO! What’s the entire order translation? I reckon I could peck it out but a German speaker could do it quickly.
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The document says they have to paint their helmets in exotic camo patterns, not exactly camo but more team colours like the flying circus.
;)





As a result of the telex message of the OK Süd of November 12 1943, this message has to be spread/shared:

During the battle for the Bernhard Line, the amount of head shots was significantly higher then usual.
The troops on the frontline and/or in the trenches of course have to wear their helmets.
It has to be supervised that their helmets are camouflaged.
If possible you have to provided cloth covers to counter the shine effect.
Everytime, again and again, the troops have to be made aware of he importance of a good camouflage.
Wearing a mosquito net that can be pulled over the helmet and face is also a good form of camouflage to counter the shinesness of your face.


This translation isn't literal but according to me it sure represents what is written.
To sum it up:
Because of the high number of head shots in the battle for the Bernhard Line, the troops have to wear their helmets, which is a no-brainer.
But the officers also have to see to it that the troops camo their helmet, if possible with a cloth camo cover.
And it is also advised to use your mosquito net to camo your helmet and face.
(Paint isn't mentioned)
 
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Peter U said:
The document says they have to paint their helmets in exotic camo patterns, not exactly camo but more team colours like the flying circus.
;)





Aa a result of the telex message of the OK Süd of November 12 1943, this message has to be spread/shared:

During the battle for the Bernhard Line, the amount of head shots was significantly higher then usual.
The troops on the frontline and/or in the trenches of course have to wear their helmets.
It has to be supervised that their helmets are camouflaged.
If possible you have to provided cloth covers to counter the shine effect.
Everytime, again and again, the troops have to be made aware of he importance of a good camouflage.
Wearing a mosquito net that can be pulled over the helmet and face is also a good form of camouflage to counter the shinesness of your face.


This translation isn't literal but according to me it sure represents what is written.
To sum it up:
Because of the high number of head shots in the battle for the Bernhard Line, the troops have to wear their helmets, which is a no-brainer.
But the officers also have to see to it that the troops camo their helmet, if possible with a cloth camo cover.
And it is also advised to use your mosquito net to camo your helmet and face.
(Paint isn't mentioned)
Click to expand...
You're right.
What I found interesting is that it came from the corps and not the regiment.
If FJR 6 in Normandy painted their helmets, it was probably allowed and not necessarily an initiative from von der Heydte or its troops.
The pattern (if any) of the camo might have been specific and dependent on the paint they had.
 
Guillaume d'Orange said:
You're right.
What I found interesting is that it came from the corps and not the regiment.
If FJR 6 in Normandy painted their helmets, it was probably allowed and not necessarily an initiative from von der Heydte or its troops.
The pattern (if any) of the camo might have been specific and dependent on the paint they had.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and what is also great about this note is that it helps understanding what is defined by the general public, so to speak, as "fjr6 camo pattern" which in reality seems to be applied by many different FJ troops around that time frame. The camo mostly shows the tan/sand base with randomly applied stripes of green.
 
Scharf said:
Exactly, and what is also great about this note is that it helps understanding what is defined by the general public, so to speak, as "fjr6 camo pattern" which in reality seems to be applied by many different FJ troops around that time frame. The camo mostly shows the tan/sand base with randomly applied stripes of green.
Click to expand...

That green and tan pattern is a prescribed camo pattern. I’ve got it on other helmets, particularly Lw. This one was simply commonly applied with texture added to the paint.

Same issue paint, generally same patterns. This is why I took such issue with the waftards / modtards at WAF (and got banned) whenever one of their kamo lid gods was chumming the water with a ridiculously fake and obscenely priced “exotic freshie” and they were all chanting “wow” and “one looker!” There were no Sherwin Williams stores in those AOs and no unit individual artistic expression painting contests. Further, great camo could be achieved with mud, wire, local foliage, etc. The most incredibly laughable concept I ever saw the waftards spin up was that these individually distinct “exotic freshies” were individual expressions, “like the airplanes in Von Richtofen’s flying circus.”

Reality, not waftardation, with cited sources and period docs:

German Armor Camouflage

History of the camouflage of German armor from 1927 to 1945.
panzerworld.com

 
Hambone said:
That green and tan pattern is a prescribed camo pattern. I’ve got it on other helmets, particularly Lw. This one was simply commonly applied with texture added to the paint.

Same issue paint, generally same patterns. This is why I took such issue with the waftards / modtards at WAF (and got banned) whenever one of their kamo lid gods was chumming the water with a ridiculously fake and obscenely priced “exotic freshie” and they were all chanting “wow” and “one looker!” There were no Sherwin Williams stores in those AOs and no unit individual artistic expression painting contests. Further, great camo could be achieved with mud, wire, local foliage, etc. The most incredibly laughable concept I ever saw the waftards spin up was that these individually distinct “exotic freshies” were individual expressions, “like the airplanes in Von Richtofen’s flying circus.”

Reality, not waftardation, with cited sources and period docs:

German Armor Camouflage

History of the camouflage of German armor from 1927 to 1945.
panzerworld.com

Click to expand...

I do not refute your observations and I tend to agree, plus, this XI Fliegerkorp note is good evidence that it's not limited to a unit or to a select few to practice. To that we could add that some pictures of helmets and equipment painted in the same way exist. I see no point in painting something in a "unique" way, at least I would be warry if something falls under an unkown category.

I Have a few items painted by FJ troops, they have a distinctive green paint (Tarnpaste) and often follow the same pattern. And none were "fjr6" yet they look alike, but a unit that served in Normandy VS one that was in Britanny, would sell better I guess...
 
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