1903 Spandau
- Thread starter Hercules
- Start date
Thanks for posting Brian-- I've seen this rifle before, did it come from Eisel? The bolt is depot (originally off an Amberg) Unit marking is cool-- @AndyB will probably pinpoint it better, but I read as possibly Landsturm tied to the I Armee Korps. Just a guess off the top of my head though. Anything else on the buttplate?
Likely a Bavarian depot then. Explains the bolt!
mauser1908
Senior Member
It’s a great rifle! Though, I suspect the bolt has been humped. The font looks off and the small bolt components weren’t renumbered 99% of the time. I leave 1% open because anything is possible. With that said, I’ve never personally seen it and would expect small components to take the form of an overstamp rather than grinding. Again great rifle, the remainder looks righteous, I just think the font is suspect.
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The striker assembly gives me pause, but I think the body is Ok.
PrayingMantis
Senior Member
I’d argue that the bolt body is not legit depot. If the buttplate had a depot number or the wrist a Bavarian acceptance mark I’d say it’s plausible, but the font is too consistent with the obviously fraudulent striker assembly. The new numbers are overstruck, which is a depot practice, but the font doesn’t match known examples, like the 1915 Danzig Jory recently posted.
Were it mine I would swap the bolt. Overall a damn fine early Gew with a neat unit mark.
Were it mine I would swap the bolt. Overall a damn fine early Gew with a neat unit mark.
AndyB
Senior Member
The J inspector proof is on bavarian bolt and on disc, is the buttstock serialed same way also 3543d ? I would prefer remain already by this configuration as the bolt was force matched and the serial font doesnt look new date. Different font of serial is on front ring, which was probably replaced too.
mauser1908
Senior Member
The c/J on the stock disk is related to a Spandau inspector from around 1903. The inspection team that used J isn’t observed at Amberg until the early part of 1917, as is the case with the donor bolt. In fact, if the OP shows the sleeve facing side of the bolt root, the exact month it was made can be discerned. Moreover, inspectors with surnames that began with J are prevalent throughout the ordnance system; Amberg, Mauser, Spandau, and Pieper all had teams represented by J at some point.
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AndyB
Senior Member
problem by J proofs on bolt is they are both different crowns as on Spandau probably, this form speaks for bavaria same as the bolt handle was fireproofed in Bavaria over the upper crown/J in that case. personally i have problem to date the force matching of the bolt to 3543 as the area where it was applied on all parts the new number has no cleaned rust areas to compare the other surface of bolt.
Cyrus is right, imo, maybe not absolute but certainly as to justification of suspicion. I find the bolt suspicious also, though hesitate to certainty. Barrel fit trends well...
Cyrano4747
Well-known member
I dunno, I could see the bolt being legit. Mostly because if it's a fake it's one of the sloppiest fakes I've seen in a while, especially the striker assembly. Fakers care a lot more about clean markings and not leaving traces of the original SN than the WW1 depots ever did.
That said, I don't know Bavarian depot work so if it's wildly inconsistent with what others have observed I'll defer.
That said, I don't know Bavarian depot work so if it's wildly inconsistent with what others have observed I'll defer.
Cyrano4747
Well-known member
OK, a question for those of you who know the depot rifles:
Did they obliterate the old suffix when they did the work? Because the receiver is a d-block, but the bolt root is an e-block. If I was faking a rifle there's no way I'd leave that little detail alone, but I could see a wartime depot not really caring.
On the suffix, most of the time, no. But there are also examples with a fully scrubbed bolt. Rastatt rifles almost always seem to have the old suffix. It just depends..each depot had their own quirks but didn't always follow them either because clear exceptions exist.
With old suffix:
1915 VCS 4674e Rastatt Rework
Hi Guys, I've been busy with work and extracurricular volunteer stuff, but still found some time to go after this one a couple weeks ago. This is a nice bookend to early VCS production, being toward the tail end of 1915. My other 1915 VCS is the earliest known and was built off a reclaimed...
www.k98kforum.com
Fully scrubbed bolt on a 98a (this one is definitely a Bavarian rework)
1912 Danzig Kar98a 1452- (Bavarian Transfer) Schweres Reiter marked
Hi All, I picked this one up recently after a bit of peer pressure from Sam. The seller gradually reduced his price until it hit a reasonable level. The rifle was absolutely caked in dried grease and a little bit of rust in places. From the pictures it seemed to be one that could clean up...
www.k98kforum.com
A Koblenz rework with an old suffix remaining:
1908 DWM Koblenz Rework
Hi All, Got this one through a friend recently. The rifle itself is a DWM 1908 that passed through Koblenz (#5) at some point. The bolt is a replacement and scrubbed/renumbered at the depot. Not much more to say other than it's a pretty solid rifle and in good shape. Nice sling too...
www.k98kforum.com
Another scrubbed bolt with faint remnants of the old SN. Very likely also Bavarian.
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PrayingMantis
Senior Member
I should clarify, the style of restamp is absolutely plausible; you often see new numbers stamped over old and it is common with fakers to completely scrub away the old number. That said, the main issue is with the font. Look at the 4s, they lack serif on the bottom, they are even reminiscent of Comic Sans. By far most period German fonts have serifs, I know Spandau and WOK to be exceptions, but most depot stamps are serifed.
