Austrian Inter-War set up M.1895 Stutzenkarabiner Sniper Rifle serial #18

While surely not the main focus of this forum, the reason why I posted it here: it most possibly was handed out to the Volkssturm at the end of WWII since it was found among German equipment (gas masks, ammo, etc.), well hidden in an Austrian attic until this summer.

This rifle is a Stutzenkarabiner Sniper rifle and has a very interesting history:

In the inter-war period Austria gave order to count the weapons they have, especially regarding sniper rifles. They received back charts that contained Zielfernrohrgewehre ("sniper rifles"), Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner ("sniper carbines"; "Stutzenkarabiner" is the carbine with swivels both on bottom and on the side) and Zielfernrohrstutzen (also "sniper carbine", but "Stutzen" means swivels only on bottom of the stock). The equipment however should only consist of Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner, so sniper carbines with swivels both on the side and on bottom. Therefore the Zielfernrohrgewehre had to be sent to the Waffen- und Zeughauptdepot ("gun and equipment main depot") in exchange for Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner. The Zielfernrohrstutzen however had to be converted to -Stutzenkarabiner by the Waffenmeister (gunsmiths of the Army). The parts required for this conversion were supplied to the Waffenmeister by the Waffen- und Zeughauptdepot. At the same time the Waffen- und Zeughauptdepot were ordered to set up 145 Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner.

The particular rifle features scope bases that have the internal AZF assembly number they got when issued in WWI still on them, additionally the newly given serial number #18. The original AZF mount assembly number make it obvious the bases already originate from either a Stutzen or a Stutzenkarabiner and therefore are parts re-used from a WWI sniper rifle. It however cannot be said for certain whether the rifle is a Waffenmeister conversion from Zielfernrohrstutzen to Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner, or a newly set up Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner by the Waffen- und Zeughauptdepot. Based on the very low serial number I however tend to assume it is more likely this rifle was set up by the Waffen- und Zeughauptdepot, since the Waffenmeister would not change over the serial to a new one.

Worth mentioning in this context are the barrel shank stamps. Note the rifle originally carried what appears to be a Wn?5 proof, therefore most likely Wn15, that would indicate the rifle being originally proofed in Vienna in 1915. This then got overstamped HV25 for HeeresVerwaltung 1925, an Austrian repair stamp withmost possibly the date the rifle got changed over to Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner. This stamp however is overstamped a third time with what reads 27 - what means it was repaired again in 1927! The second repair very well could also had been a minor repair, such as a change of the scope only, since the huge mixture of various scope manufacturers with many of them requiring repair was another problem Austria faced post WWI.

The caliber of this rifle is still 8x50R since the Army was not happy with the accuracy of the S-Patrone (or "8x56R" caliber). In fact the sniper rifles at least up to 1936 never got converted to 8x56R. On 1st May 1936 the Staatsfabrik ("Government Factory") was ordered to set up 4 M.17/30 rifles as well as 4 "8mm M.95 S-Stutzen" (8x56R converted carbines) with scope in "neuer Befestigungsart" ("new mount style"). This trials confirmed a worse accuracy of the S-caliber, despite the rifles for this experiment were hand selected. Since the request for new sniper rifles to be M.17/30 got neglected due to high costs, at least up to end 1937/beginning 1938 only these trials sniper rifles were in S-Patrone/8x56R caliber. At around this period the "neue Befestigungsart" got approved, but was soon stopped since Austria was occupied by Germany.

Fascinating topic, one welcomed in the interwar forum certainly, though many here surely find the subject worthy! (As would the sniper/optics section most probably) - it is a true dilemma determining where such a rifle best fits on this forum!

Interwar Austria is a very fascinating subject, at least as interesting as Germany or Poland, though military topics are almost completely over looked by English speaking authors, though articles on politics or economic history (Austria's economic collapse 1929-1931, Anschluss efforts at that time, which Austria sought) can be found, though often interwoven with German or regional issues (main topics)

I certainly would welcome more interwar Austrian topics on the interwar forum if you ever encounter something that stimulates your urge to post again on Austria!

Very nice rifle, anyway with that serial number is not typical for normal range M95, the barell side 1.republic eagle overstamped above older imperial eagle, anyway on first mounting scope ring is only the newer proof visible, so that speaks for 1.republic rework, question is too that Wn eagle 25? was stamped under HV eagle 27? evidently more time restamped.when it would AZF reworked so i would await some of this stamp there. For me on short Stutzen made a scope mounting is little strange, the long rifle would be certainly better for long distances. I assume as prior 1930 refurbished it went not through recalibration to 8x56R, personally dont believe the 8x56R was worser ammunition, as extended tests were done prior accepting in army. Possible the longer projectile of 8x50R is better for stabilisation and has flatter trajectory? The unit is most real postwar 5.Infantery Regiment.

Andy, there never was a Wn25 proof. I have mentioned in my original post this rifle has three acceptance stamps that were each overstamped. Bottom is Wn ?5, most possibly Wn15, the original proof of the barrel. This then got overstamped with HV25, what is the year this rifle got converted to Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner. AZF didn't exist in the inter-war period; in fact it was renamed to WHF already in 1918 and its designation in the inter-war period was Waffen- und Hauptzeugdepot.

Finally, Austria already during WWI made accuracy comparison between scoped rifles and carbines. The result was they were equal in accuracy. This resulted in even the official order to strip M.95 sniper rifles that come damaged/without scope from the front of their bases and re-use these bases on carbines.

Re the caliber and the question on what is more accurate: I didn't throw in personal experiences nor opinions. My text was simply based on original documents. I therefore simply may quote a document from 11th February 1935:

Das Heeresinspektorat sieht in der grösseren Streuung des M 95 "S" Stutzen nicht das alleinige Übel, sondern auch in der großen Spannung in den Treffpunktslagen, namentlich nach der Höhe.
Beilage 3 und 3 a zeigen dies deutlich, wobei zu bedenken ist, daß ausgesucht gute und genau eingeschossene "S" Stutzen verwendet wurden.
Vergleichende Versuche mit neuen Stutzenläufen die für die S Patrone erzeugt werden, also den Mangel des ausgebohrten Laderaums nicht haben, gegenüber dem M 17/30 Gewehr und dem M 34 Gewehr sollten eingeleitet werden, um zu sehen, welches Gewehr für die Scharfschützen und Zielfernrohrschützen am besten entspricht.

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Roughly translates as:
The Army inspector notices based on the larger spreading of the M 95 "S" Carbine not the only evil, but also in the large spreading of the hitting positions, by name per the height.
Attachment 3 and 3 a show this clearly, where one also has to consider, selected and precisely targeted "S" carbines were used.
Comparing experiments with new carbine barrels which were made for the S caliber, therefore not having the issue of the bored out chamber, compared to the M 17/30 rifle and the M 34 rifle should be outcarried, to see, which rifle would fit to the needs of a sniper and scope shooters best.

This is followed by a report of several pages, including charts listing the rifle serials as well as the persons shooting and the spreading they made with two different S cartridges on different distances. I therefore consider this quite well researched.

PS: you might consider it funny the (planned) changeover of sniper rifles to 8x56R caliber in 1937/38 was mainly based upon the fact, that the troop didn't have any more 8x50R ammo and requested them to be reworked since several courses require soldiers shooting with sniper rifles...

Thanks for sharing it, yes the highest Wn proof is 1920, about AZF i known it ended with war, AZF was a production facility, question is about the Haupt depot, what they realised. You should be right the HV is for 25 and later for 27 which are 2 postwar eagles overstamped, the HV looks like identical position so is not so visible, or the older HV is under it completely, as 27 digits looks larger in font as 25.
The translation is ok, i understand it better in german, is clear the rebored chambers are problematic, as the barells were old of 8x50R. They would proof origin M30 or M34 barells. Anyway for lenght of barell its curios that someone could declare the shorter barell made same results as the long rifle one. Question is for what distances were used army sniper using?

I'll dig out the documents later and give you an insight on the order to switch over to carbines later, if you want to see that.

Thanks that would be nice, i appreciate Your help.

AndyB said:

Thanks that would be nice, i appreciate Your help.

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Found it - we once already discussed this on gunboards, and you were also participating there: https://www.gunboards.com/threads/m-95-sniper-rifle-and-stutzenkarabiner.657242/post-5852106

To make it easier I'll just quote myself here, plus add the pictures:

DaveFromSheffield said:

I looked it up in my documentation, since I can't remember everything. Still everything in German since translating more than 100 pages into English is quite some work ... well, if my identification is correct, the rifle is correct too. Digging up the reference in there, I looked up the original file. Attached is a copy of the original document which was answering the question what should happen with returning M.95 sniper rifles, which often lack the scope. This order clearly states that rifles have to be stripped of the scope bases. These scope bases have to be used for new mounts and ONLY with Stutzenkarabiner (see last sentence).

Edit: dug out the original order for the changeover to M 95 Stutzenkarabiner as basis for snipers too ... this is the file to which the previous attachement is referring to.

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Thanks for additional info and documents, is mentioned there that already made Sniper rifles went to sniper kurs, anyway as mentioned there was clearly declared that in future it should be used on StutzenKarabiner the mounts. By 480mm barell lenght of Stutzen is this strange. Same as other countries didnt used similar short lenght by scoped rifles. Question is how it was used on army /unit level, when shooting to 300-400m range no problem.

Yes correct. They would not tear complete rifles apart to strip for the bases, only those coming back - that is why they said the complete ones should go to sniper course, but from that point on only Stutzenkarabiner sniper rifles. Note however this is already very late in WWI, with AZF assembly numbers you find them in the very high serial range of approx. 12-13.000 starting - and not many more were made above that assembly number. Based on that the chances to find a Zielfernrohrstutzen(karabiner) rifle are theoretically lower than to find a Zielfernrohrkarabiner - on the other hand in the inter-war period they wanted to switch over to the Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner, so one should think opposite. Anyway, based on that the toughest to find variant should be the Zielfernrohrstutzen, they obviously only made a few of them during war and these were also ordered to be rebuilt to Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner!

Absolut said:

The Army inspector notices based on the larger spreading of the M 95 "S" Carbine not the only evil, but also in the large spreading of the hitting positions, by name per the height.
Attachment 3 and 3 a show this clearly, where one also has to consider, selected and precisely targeted "S" carbines were used.
Comparing experiments with new carbine barrels which were made for the S caliber, therefore not having the issue of the bored out chamber, compared to the M 17/30 rifle and the M 34 rifle should be outcarried, to see, which rifle would fit to the needs of a sniper and scope shooters best.

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Is it possible that the M 34 rifle was the M 12/34 made by Steyr for Colombia?

I checked and couldn't find any information upon what they referred to by "M 34" rifle. I'll see if I can find more information in other documents.

But you made me check documents again and I'm glad you did, because I found something else, an order to set up newly 15 M.95 Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner, as well as overhaul and match optics to 3 Zielfernrohrstutzenkarabiner. This makes a total of 18 Stutzenkarabiner-Snipers to be set up. They were to be kept as stock with the Waffen- und Zeughauptdepot. Document dates 26th November 1925. Find attached a screenshot of it.

This rifle has a HV25 stamp, is serial #18 and seems to remain in unissued condition, what it would, if it was to be kept as stock only. It sounds safe to assume this is the final rifle set up per this order.