1916 Spandau EWB

[cj556]

I won this one off a recent auction but don’t have it yet in hand. It’s an e block and supposedly matching less one screw and the rod. What I find interesting about this gun is the E block seems early for grasping grooves, also the crown over A which I’ve seen on Amberg stocks. Did Spandau use this style of stock early on? Any other thoughts are welcome. Unfortunately I haven’t seen the buttplate to see if there are any depot markings.

 

[cj556]

Couple more pictures

 

[PrayingMantis]

It's not without precedent, Chris's Spandau Stern has a c/A made stock. And to my knowledge Amberg was making stocks with grasping grooves earlier in the year.

 

[Loewe]

I won this one off a recent auction but don’t have it yet in hand. It’s an e block and supposedly matching less one screw and the rod. What I find interesting about this gun is the E block seems early for grasping grooves, also the crown over A which I’ve seen on Amberg stocks. Did Spandau use this style of stock early on? Any other thoughts are welcome. Unfortunately I haven’t seen the buttplate to see if there are any depot markings.

Away from my database but C/A is most associated with Amberg (Bavaria) as stated, further C/A is not normally associated with Spanda stocks in this range or generally and the wrist acceptance is generally the most stable of the three positions. Further still grips are not normal this early in 1916 for SPandau, - grips are known this early but very rare, and it only becomes "normal" in the late double suffix ranges of 1916 for Spandau.

I would characterize this as unusual but not impossible, the C/A is most disturbing though, but will have to await more details, but I would have suspicions with what little is seen so far. Maybe a Spandau that passed through Amberg or Ingolstadt in 1917 or 1918? Hard to say with these pictures.

 

[chrisftk]

Away from my database but C/A is most associated with Amberg (Bavaria) as stated, further C/A is not normally associated with Spanda stocks in this range or generally and the wrist acceptance is generally the most stable of the three positions. Further still grips are not normal this early in 1916 for SPandau, - grips are known this early but very rare, and it only becomes "normal" in the late double suffix ranges of 1916 for Spandau.

I would characterize this as unusual but not impossible, the C/A is most disturbing though, but will have to await more details, but I would have suspicions with what little is seen so far. Maybe a Spandau that passed through Amberg or Ingolstadt in 1917 or 1918? Hard to say with these pictures.

Paul, I can clear that up having looked over this rifle with Marc.--It's C/A with an overstamped Spandau c/Z on the wrist.

My diagnosis would simply be it's a very early example of a Amberg supplied stock with grooves re-accepted at Spandau.

Regardless, it's a heck of a rifle. Looking forward to seeing his detailed pics.

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[cj556]

Away from my database but C/A is most associated with Amberg (Bavaria) as stated, further C/A is not normally associated with Spanda stocks in this range or generally and the wrist acceptance is generally the most stable of the three positions. Further still grips are not normal this early in 1916 for SPandau, - grips are known this early but very rare, and it only becomes "normal" in the late double suffix ranges of 1916 for Spandau.

I would characterize this as unusual but not impossible, the C/A is most disturbing though, but will have to await more details, but I would have suspicions with what little is seen so far. Maybe a Spandau that passed through Amberg or Ingolstadt in 1917 or 1918? Hard to say with these pictures.

I thought about the Ingolstadt possibility too, especially with the EWB brand. I will have the rifle in hand this weekend and will get more pictures either way.

 

[PrayingMantis]

This reminds me of our previous discussion on parts Amberg supplied to other makers. We identified Triggerguards and Receivers in Erfurt Sterns, but was there anything else?

 

[Loewe]

I think Storz lists some of the items the arsenals supplied to others at the start of the war, but I think it was more extensive or evolved as the war progressed. You can tell by the acceptance patterns that certain items were supplied by others or a central source in large numbers. However I have not developed a trends on observations, - in my case it would be a big new project, generally I do not trend Imperial rifles like their NS counterparts, - Imperial I only trend actively RR, BC, boit & stock acceptance patterns; the 98k I trend almost all characteristics because waffenamts are so stable and easy to trend patterns.

Anyway, I agree Amberg is perhaps the most interesting of the arsenals regarding their activity in salvaging rifles and practicing an individualistic method, this seemingly becomes more involved later in the war, - in some regard this could relate to the EWB or at least to the chaotic nature of the last few months of the war.

 

[Loewe]

Yes, I see the C/z under the C/A now!

I looked at trends the other day and grips are possible this early, though only two or three between this range and double suffix ranges, - where it becomes common. Will be interesting to see the rifle in more detail when it arrives.

I will try and flesh out the trends for Spandau to see exactly what the probability are regarding the stock fitting patterns, - so far as data collected can suggest.

Paul, I can clear that up having looked over this rifle with Marc.--It's C/A with an overstamped Spandau c/Z on the wrist.


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[cj556]

I was supposed to have this rifle Friday but now USPS says delayed. Rest assured I will get detailed pictures when in hand and I’m looking forward to learning more about it.

 

[Loewe]

Have a record of this rifle from 2012, sold on GB by a well known collector who often sells on GB, RyanL, didn't save the auction text and he didn't do internals.

Anyway, an update since recording it again.

 

[cj556]

If usps is to be believed I should have the gun Tuesday. I will update with pictures once in hand.

 

[swjXE]

If usps is to be believed I should have the gun Tuesday. I will update with pictures once in hand.

Smokin cool Gewehr!
Thanks for sharing!

 

[cj556]

Thank you all for your input and patience. I picked up the rifle today and here are the pictures. Nothing on the buttplate other than the serial.

 

[cj556]

Batch two more to come

 

[cj556]

Last photo batch if I missed anything let me know please

 

[Loewe]

Try and look in front of the rearsight, typically Berlin firms placed BC's in front of the RS. This began early in the war, when is defined by trends, but I am away from them, but it certainly started by 1916. I will run these pictures against trends tomorrow, but it is probable this is the original barrel, though in some cases ordnance spares also were placed in the same location, but with this FP it is highly likely the barrel is factory. The BC and acceptance will verify either scenario...

Did you examine the stock for any additional markings?

 

[chrisftk]

I'm a big fan of this one.

My thought would be this had some work at Ingolstadt and ended the war in Bavarian hands.

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[cj556]

I apologize I missed the barrel code yesterday. Here is a picture of that and the wrist markings. These are the only other stock markings I could find.

 

[cj556]

Also the rear sight base has a crown over RC marking.