1921 DWM Army/Police Contract

[pzjgr]

Had a chance to pick this one up from my buddy back in Buffalo, wasn't even sure what it was at first, till I sent some pics to Bob, and he told me what it was and gave me an opinion on value. So got back to my buddy, and came up with a number, and snagged it.

She is a bit finish worn, and definitely has a been there done that look, but appears to be original finish, and is 100% numbers matching except for the mag. Well, and the grips are un-numbered, so not sure on those, but they are worn commensurate to the wear on the gun, and fit well...so they've been on for a long time, anyway.

No signs of a sear safety or mag safety, but other than that don't know if there is a way to tell if it went to the military, or police. No unit markings either.

Now my third Luger, not earth shattering by any means, but I feel the price was right at $1100, and its a bit of an oddity at least to me. If I understood Bob's explanation, the Allied Control Commission said they were allowed 100,000 Lugers in the total inventory, but the only had 52,000 in the inventory, so they allowed DWM to build 48,000 to round out the inventory...kind of neat for sure.

Anything useful to point out, and any other opinions are always appreciated.

Mike

 

[pzjgr]

More pics...

 

[pzjgr]

Last pics...

 

[mauser99]

Very interesting example.. I would assume if it went to the Police it would have been modified. They took the time to modify every other p08 so what not this one.. Chamber date makes it a scarce bird i imagine.

 

[mrfarb]

If it was used early and returned to Army service early enough it may not have added sear safety, not exactly sure of the dates on those mods even though I’ve been told. But I would think it would have unit markings on grip strap?


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[flynaked]

Nothing to add, but that sure is interesting! The start to an interesting era!

 

[pzjgr]

Nothing to add, but that sure is interesting! The start to an interesting era!

It certainly is...I didn't realize there were new made military Lugers post WWI, at least until the Nazi's took over and re-started production...

Here is a link to a thread by Jan Still on the Luger forums...

https://www.lugerforums.com/threads/1920-1921-dated-dwm-lugers.1567/

And here is the main info from it...

"1920 AND 1921 DATED DWM LUGERS, NEW MANUFACTURE, PROOFS, ARMY ACCEPTANCE OF POLICE LUGERS.

Starting in 1910 regulations required Army Lugers to be dated at manufacture (see Imperial Lugers page 29-30 and Gortz page 111-114) These regulations requiring Army Lugers be dated were reaffirmed by Army directive in 1923 (H. Dv. 464). (see Weimar Lugers page 18-20)

The Weimar Era Lugers dated 1920 and 1921 are of new manufacture and were not reworked from surplus Imperial Lugers. During 1920 and 1921 DWM was the only company manufacturing Lugers in Germany. Erfurt was a large government arms plant shut down by the Allied Control Commission. Simson became a repair facility of the K.98, MG 08, MP, and P.08 by Prussian Ministry of the Interior orders dated Oct. 19, 1922 (reportedly because it was a small facility and not pose the rearmament threat that Erfurt did). There is no evidence or indication that such Lugers were back dated from 1926.(Weimar Lugers page 26-27, 39).

Reupke (1991) through research of Reichswehr documents in the Library of Congress established that the Waffenant (Weapons Office) was formed by orders dated November 8, 1919. Reichswehr Troop Registers dated 1920, 1921 and 1923 list the personnel for the Waffenant and show the inspection department as Wa4. (Weimar Lugers page 20)

In summary, the above documents indicate that the 9mm Lugers dated 1920 and 1921 were of new manufacture by DWM (not reworks of Imperial Lugers). The military proofs found on them originated from the Reichswehr/Government and should not be attributed to Simson or Erfurt.

Based on observed examples, it is estimated that 80% of the 1920 and 1921 dated Army accepted Lugers went to the police. The police Lugers are identified by state police unit markings, a police installed sear safety, and magazines numbered 1, 2 or 3 in the police style. Most/almost all of these 1920, 1921 dated police Lugers bear Reichswehr acceptance stamps and proofs. This indicates that during the Weimar Era many police lugers were accepted by Reichswehr(Army) inspectors. (Weimar Lugers page 17, 40)

Jan"

And finally a better shot of better stamped "Peace Doves" as they are apparently colloquially known as...

 

[pzjgr]

So, small update....found a nice Imperial wood base mag at Tulsa at a friends table, and snagged it to put into this 1921, as I figured it would be more appropriate for the gun...will put the aluminum base mag into the holster pocket to complete the "rig"...

Also, a question on my two "spare" mags...I was told that these extruded one piece mags may be a more desireable variant...not sure how much truthe there is to that, but I think both of these are extruded one piece mags? Both are E/37 accepted...one has an E/37 on the base, the other doesn't (perhaps it was replaced?) Just curious of true...

 

[RockinWR]

Hi Mike,
* Love that acquisition of the 1921. I've always thought these newly made Weimar DWM's were under appreciated. A disservice as they get lumped in with all of the Weimar reworks. Only the new Simsons Lugers of 1925-26 are similar. As they say down here: "Rode hard & put up wet". Honest wear & maybe served some hard times protecting the borders from foreign incursion. If it doesn't show Police characteristics, it likely went the the Army IMHO.

* The code 122 mags were made by Schmeisser essentially in only 1940 with minor deviations(41-42code). They are favored as they are more reliable. Construction is a welded tube, ground flush, blued and contains a zig-zag internal spring. The mag plug is center pinned affording a better retention than the side pinned mags of earlier times. In '41 & '42 these were marked w/ the new Schmeisser code of fxo. Same company made the MP40 and other notable machine guns. The e/37 coded, no suffix mag is a rarely seen variation. It was only marked this way for a month or so. The e/37 on the base was quickly eliminated in favor of the two e/37 acceptance marks on the tube's side. The "g" suffix block also falls into the 1940 P.08 production sequence.

* If you need some range time...let me know.

 

[pzjgr]

Bob, thanks for the input, and the mag info as well!

I picked up a nice black plastic base fxo un-numbered mag which I put into the chromed 42 byf...

Someone needs to do a new high quality Luger book! I should just buckle down and grab Still's Weimar Lugers and Third Reich Lugers...I have the Imperial volume...

 

[RyanE]

Someone needs to do a new high quality Luger book! I should just buckle down and grab Still's Weimar Lugers and Third Reich Lugers...I have the Imperial volume...

The Gortz/Sturgess book is quite good and I would recommend it. Get the one they published (sold by Simpsons Ltd) not the Collector Grade Publishing one.

Still's books are probably worth having too, though they are a bit dated now.



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[jsz]

Neat pistol. I just looked at a 1920 Military made, Police used Luger, so decided to add to your thread. I am trying to assist the owner with selling it. No real history. The mag markings are very interesting. Pistol appears to match, with exception of the mag, I did not fully disassemble it to verify grips and etc.
Jeff