bcd 43 receiver:: A.43 bcd barrel
- Thread starter Bob in OHIO
- Start date
Somehow I missed this thread, - I wonder what else I have overlooked... this rifle is rather interesting, try and show more of it. You are correct in that this is unusual, not so much that it is a bcd made barrel (which it is), quite a few are known, but this is the earliest I have recorded it on a straight Army bcd 98k.
Believe it or not, but apparently bcd was experimenting with making barrels long before Gustloff II at Buchwald opened for business (rifle making business), 1940 and 1941 dated barrels are known, though extremely rare and typically on late production, clearly rejects that were pressed into service.
Many know that the various postwar reports and holocaust books on Gustloff speak of Gustloff Weimar making rifle barrels and stocks, but in reality this subject is really difficult to see in actual practice. I half suspect bcd stocks were in regards to G43 production, as i have not been able to fully document a Gustloff made 98k stock. A few might be Gustloff made, but typically the owners/sellers didn't illustrate the rifles well enough to determine if these are distinctly bcd made. This is not the case with barrels, we know for a fact bcd made quite a few 98k barrels, the vast majority on bcd/44 production, but some show up in 1943, none earlier than this rifle. A significant number of these barrels show up on commercial assembled rifles, not Army production, and typically the barrels are rejects that were used for this purpose, probably because they failed acceptance.
All of this begs the question of whether the holocaust books are correct in their apparent conclusion that these barrels were made at KL Buchenwald, they could have been of course, but if so the handful (4) 1940-1941 dated barrels would have to be explained. It is possible Gustloff began the barrel making at Weimar and later moved it to Buchenwald when it opened, - for no 1945 dated barrels are known and the operation could have been ended when Gustloff II was bombed in August 1944.
Anyway, this is an interesting rifle, mostly because of its barrel, which is the earliest use I have recorded for bcd Army production.
Believe it or not, but apparently bcd was experimenting with making barrels long before Gustloff II at Buchwald opened for business (rifle making business), 1940 and 1941 dated barrels are known, though extremely rare and typically on late production, clearly rejects that were pressed into service.
Many know that the various postwar reports and holocaust books on Gustloff speak of Gustloff Weimar making rifle barrels and stocks, but in reality this subject is really difficult to see in actual practice. I half suspect bcd stocks were in regards to G43 production, as i have not been able to fully document a Gustloff made 98k stock. A few might be Gustloff made, but typically the owners/sellers didn't illustrate the rifles well enough to determine if these are distinctly bcd made. This is not the case with barrels, we know for a fact bcd made quite a few 98k barrels, the vast majority on bcd/44 production, but some show up in 1943, none earlier than this rifle. A significant number of these barrels show up on commercial assembled rifles, not Army production, and typically the barrels are rejects that were used for this purpose, probably because they failed acceptance.
All of this begs the question of whether the holocaust books are correct in their apparent conclusion that these barrels were made at KL Buchenwald, they could have been of course, but if so the handful (4) 1940-1941 dated barrels would have to be explained. It is possible Gustloff began the barrel making at Weimar and later moved it to Buchenwald when it opened, - for no 1945 dated barrels are known and the operation could have been ended when Gustloff II was bombed in August 1944.
Anyway, this is an interesting rifle, mostly because of its barrel, which is the earliest use I have recorded for bcd Army production.
Very nice rifle Bob.
Bob T. offered some interesting insight on this subject, I think it is worth adding here:
Paul: I was reading your contribution to this thread on the Gustloff barrels. The only thought I have on this topic is that barrel-making as a specialty requires a good deal of expensive and specialized equipment to accomplish, which generally means that if you’ve acquired this physical plant it’s to your advantage to make use of it. Most other tooling involved in arms production can be converted from one task to another (making bolts to making trigger guards, for example). Barrel making equipment, however, does that one thing. I realize that these government-dominated enterprises were pretty insulated from ordinary economic realities, but having tooling that went severely underused for long periods of time is beyond odd. Bob
Naturally, I agree with Bob's view, yet there are four rifles with barrels that follow the normal marking pattern (lot-date-bcd-acceptance) with dates of "40" and "41", and so far, no 1942 (42) dates have been observed. Whether that means the machines were idle is difficult to say, perhaps they didn't have the skilled men to operate them profitably, or they were needed elsewhere, 1942 was the year they introduced two types of anti-tank guns and massive increases in mortars (and increases across the board, 80k more rifles included...). In real terms (production), 1942 was the firms first year of meaningful production.
Paul: I was reading your contribution to this thread on the Gustloff barrels. The only thought I have on this topic is that barrel-making as a specialty requires a good deal of expensive and specialized equipment to accomplish, which generally means that if you’ve acquired this physical plant it’s to your advantage to make use of it. Most other tooling involved in arms production can be converted from one task to another (making bolts to making trigger guards, for example). Barrel making equipment, however, does that one thing. I realize that these government-dominated enterprises were pretty insulated from ordinary economic realities, but having tooling that went severely underused for long periods of time is beyond odd. Bob
Naturally, I agree with Bob's view, yet there are four rifles with barrels that follow the normal marking pattern (lot-date-bcd-acceptance) with dates of "40" and "41", and so far, no 1942 (42) dates have been observed. Whether that means the machines were idle is difficult to say, perhaps they didn't have the skilled men to operate them profitably, or they were needed elsewhere, 1942 was the year they introduced two types of anti-tank guns and massive increases in mortars (and increases across the board, 80k more rifles included...). In real terms (production), 1942 was the firms first year of meaningful production.
Yes, Gustloff-Werke made a lot of MG barrels, but these were made by 936-dfb (Suhl), I am unaware of any MG barrels by Gustloff-Werke Weimar (bcd), and i am pretty sure 337-bcd isn't on Ken Huddle's list of MG barrel makers.
Probably not connected, dfb probably retained Simson's barrel making machinery, and bcd bought new machines, I think Darrin Weaver does a good job explaining the transformation of the Weimar operation from a small plant, really just a small operation making wagons and machine tools before the war, - just like with SDP, the Army "invested" huge sums of capital in the firms expansion. My bet is they bought most of their tooling new, I have a machine tools study around somewhere, Germany was pretty kickass in that department, - not to the extent of the US, but probably outperformed England (though England made some of the best machines in the world, even in the 1930's..) As I recall, Germany never kept up with demand, but a firm such as Gustloff-Werke probably got what they needed, besides, as I have said elsewhere, they not only made their own machine tools (only one or two models, which believe it or not come up on German ebay sometimes), they also auctioned off looted machines for the NS regime.
Probably not connected, dfb probably retained Simson's barrel making machinery, and bcd bought new machines, I think Darrin Weaver does a good job explaining the transformation of the Weimar operation from a small plant, really just a small operation making wagons and machine tools before the war, - just like with SDP, the Army "invested" huge sums of capital in the firms expansion. My bet is they bought most of their tooling new, I have a machine tools study around somewhere, Germany was pretty kickass in that department, - not to the extent of the US, but probably outperformed England (though England made some of the best machines in the world, even in the 1930's..) As I recall, Germany never kept up with demand, but a firm such as Gustloff-Werke probably got what they needed, besides, as I have said elsewhere, they not only made their own machine tools (only one or two models, which believe it or not come up on German ebay sometimes), they also auctioned off looted machines for the NS regime.
Attachments
Sorry, should have clarified - my remark was in relation to where the Simson machinery went. It is odd that they wasted so much making just a few barrels, but the Nazi's were good at wasting time and material. Look at the Czech factories, wasted years of opportunities for naught, but I digress....
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
This is also the earliest one which I know with a barrel that was manufactured by Gustloff-Werke. On June 24, 1943, the first 6 prisoners in the barrel department at Werk II Buchenwald began their job training as barrel straightener and during this 3-week training period Gustloff-Werke did not have to pay anything to the SS for the prisoners labor. Only after this period were 4 Reichsmark paid daily for each of these unskilled workers.
This K98k got assembled by Gustloff-Werke Werk II Buchenwald, not Fritz-Sauckel Werk in Weimar.
@Bob in OHIO
More photos would be nice and the stock completion date code under the buttplate would be particularly important. I assume there is a date around June / July 1943.
Regards,
Stephan
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
I'm sorry to ask again, would you help with the Stock Completion Date Code of your K98k?
In another thread I have read your question as to whether there was any news about Buchenwald and whether K98k were manufactured there. Like I said in my last post, your K98k got assembled at Gustloff-Werke Werk II Buchenwald, and on June 24, 1943, the first 6 prisoners in the barrel department at Werk II Buchenwald began their job training as barrel straightener.
Bob in OHIO
Senior Member
No longer have the rifle…
Stephan98k
aka 8x57IS
Thank you for your reply.