Flak 18 8.8 cm Xmas

[Hambone]

A big thanks to Pzjgr for making my Christmas this year. I've been looking for a nice 88mm shell to go with my helmet:
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?31765-M-40-Luft-DAK-Camo-88-Regt-Named-KIA

Told Pzjgr, my ordnance guru, last year if he ever ran across one....and this is it. Most happy with it, original paint and finish. I think the reason for the nice original condition is explained by the stamp in the driving band, "VAARATON" which is Finnish for "harmless" or "inert". The Finnish military stamped this in ordnance that it released for civilian sale. That must have been long ago. The Finns used the German 88 for coastal artillery defense up until the 80s and live fire trained with original German WW2 ammunition. This is a ground HE round.

 

[my66coupe]

Very nice! Merry Christmas to you. I need one for the gun room.

 

[Hambone]

Thank you My66. I think everyone needs at least one shell for the cave I figured for me an 88 would be the one to have. The only other ordnance I have is a complete S-Mi.35 (bouncing Betty) and a 2 c.m. / 20mm AA round that a friend of my grandfather gave to me when I was a kid. I think the 88 and the S-Mine were the scariest things the Germans fielded in WW2.

 

[Hercules]

Really nice. I would like to get one of those someday. So far I have a Panzer IV shell in the office for decoration.

 

[flynaked]

Awesome shell Ham

 

[mauser202]

Awesome shell HB, congratulations ! Pzjgr was instirimental in vetting the 88 I bought. The IV means it’s a heavier than standard round, the dimple on the bottom means fired and reloaded once, all learned from Pzjgr

 

[Hambone]

Thanks Mauser. Y'alls discussion about yours was what caused me to step up my search for one. I didn't know that about the dimple stamped into the case head. Tks.
Holding the projectile is scary when one thinks of that thing zipping along at 2,500 fps, about the velocity of a 7.92 rifle round, but weighing like 20 lbs.

 

[moconfed]

Now THAT is a paperweight with substance! Very nice.

 

[CanadianAR]

Very nice Craig. A lot of 8.8 stuff has come from Finland. I also recently picked one up, same case manufacturer as yours, but 44. Also once fired. Could you post
More Detail of any ink stamps on the projectile? I am restoring mine and am looking
For originals to mimic.

 

[Hambone]

Thanks Andrew, I'd heard a good bit of 88 was from there, which makes sense as they used German WW2 stuff after the war, then would have surplussed it. The only ink stamp on the projectile is the "IV" for weight/heavy round. I see no evidence of any others, many stamps though, and it appears to certainly be the original paint.

 

[pzjgr]

This one was very light on stencilling, only the weight zone marking.

If Hambone doesn't object I will post more detailed info on the projectile, and do some pics of my later type controlled fragmentation projectile...which, Andrew, is pretty much identical to yours, stampings and all...

Also think I found how they pulled the projos from the cases...

 

[Hambone]

Look forward to info on all this Pzjgr.

 

[Hambone]

Also, I think it would be good to merge this into the other 88 shell thread I stickied and make it a 8.8 cm Flak info thread. I've learned all kinds of things I didn't know about these from Pzjgr and other posts.

 

[pzjgr]

OK, my first post will illustrate some of the stamping and stenciling that goes onto a WWII German projectile...the reference I am using is fantastic, but isn't all encompassing, and doesn't cover larger Naval projectiles very well, mainly it seems to be Army type ordnance. Strange since it is a US Navy publication. There are two volumes, the second volume (the one I am using now) covers German projectiles and fuzes...the first (which I also have) covers bombs, torpedoes, rockets....

The first image I'll post covers actual stampings in the metal of the projectile...now again, this doesn't necessarily cover everything, and not everything shown may be stamped into a particular shell body....

The second covers what stencils you may find on a shell....German stenciling tended to be somewhat cryptic compared to the way we stenciled ordnance. So you typically need a table to decipher what the stencils actually mean, which is partially what the third image covers.

Finally I posted the two pages that covers the particular projectile pictured in Hambones round.

If you look to the end, you'll see some notes...there were two types of these projectiles, a one piece, and one with an open threaded bottom into which a base plate screws into. This particular projectile is of the second type.

In the one piece shell, the filling (amatol) was heated until molten and poured in through the fuze hole, a plug with the shape of the fuze with gaine was inserted to allow the amatol to cool and solidify with the proper cavity to accept the fuze later.

The two piece design, cardboard containers were used to hold the amatol, then these were inserted through the base of the projectile, and the base plate screwed in.

There is no provision for a tracer in this projectile.

A word on Gaines....normally the fuze itself should provide enough oomph to detonate the explosive filling. But in larger shells with higher capacities, or exceptionally long projectiles (deep cavity) you needed some extra punch in order to ensure a clean high order detonation. I could get into a lot of nitty gritty here, but HE usually needs a combination of heat and pressure to detonate (which is why you can burn C-4 and it won't detonate)...the fuze has a small explosive charge essentially to set off the large charge. When the fuze goes off a combination of heat and shockwave detonates the main charge.

A gaine is a supplemental detonator that screws into the fuze body, the fuze sets it off, and the larger explosive charge in the gaine provides the extra power to ensure the entire filler payload high order detonates. A low order det is kind of like a squib, it is not initiated with enough oomph, and it sort of fizzles.

This projectile has a lot of stampings in the metal, but the only stenciling on it is a weight zone marking.

This is important, and is a roman number from I to V....III being "standard" weight, I and II are incrementally lighter, and IV and V incrementally heavier. Lighter, and you may need more powder increments to achieve proper trajectory, or different ballistic calcs to ensure accuracy, the same with heavier than normal shells. The increment changes only effect separate loading ammo, the 88 is a fixed round.

Also importantly, big guns depend on various hydraulic systems for recoil attenuation, and to return the barrel to proper position after recoil. These systems require specified maintenance typically after a set mean number of rounds....the gunners would (try) to keep track of the number and types of rounds fired....shooting lots of heavy rounds will narrow the maintenance interval, and lots of light shells will extend it.

I will cover fuzing in the next post....

 

[Peter U]

Iconic piece of WW2 ordenance.

 

[20PZGR]

Here's my small collection
1 x KwK 36 L56 HE
2 x KwK43 8.8cm
2 x KwK 40 7.5cm HE & AP L43/48
1 x Pak 36 3.7cm
1 x Flak 37 3.7cm
1 x KwK 40 7.5cm L24
1 X KwK 39 5cm L42 AP
1 X KwK 39 5cm L60 HE

 

[matthanne]

Cool item for certain! I can add about why the Navy has info on it- the US EOD community worked (at least when I was there with the foreign materiel exploitation) a lot with NAVEODTECHDIV. They keep files on all encountered ordnance and function as a central repository, so as not to replicate the learning process risking unneeded attempts. Newly encountered items are reported up to them. These are also made available to certified LE agencies who operate bomb squads, and as items age out of currency, you may find them available elsewhere as well. There have even been times when such documents were released because they had to be entered as court documents!

 

[Remfan]

Awesome looking shell and thanks for the pics. Am sure many a tank fell victim. Great addition to the collector's den.

 

[deadeye18]

Congratulations Hambone it looks awesome

 

[Hambone]

Thanks guys. Pzjgr, that's outstanding information, thank you