I think I solved the Kü mystery

mrfarb

No War Eagles For You! 🏁
Staff member
Since I just posted this on Jan Stills forum, thought I would just cut and paste it here:

Hello fellow collectors. I believe I may have solved the mystery of the "Kü" marking. Background, some may know me some may not. I am active in the K98k collecting field and have co-authored a few books on the subject. We are working on Volume 2 in which I will cover the repair depots that repaired K98k's. In doing so I have acquired a bit of a feel for how the Germans marked depot weapons and such. For the Heer, the typical abbreviation for depots uses the first and last letter of the depot: for instance Spandau is shortened to Su, Mainz is Mz, Krakau is Kru, and these abbreviations were applied to the rifles in the way of inspection stamps to show the repair facility responsible to doing the work on the rifles. You guys may be more familiar with Jt depot markings, i.e. Ingolstadt (in German the J and I are interchangeable).

However, I don't believe that this carried over for the Luftwaffe, exactly. We do know that the Luftwaffe had individual repair depots known as Luftzeugamt. These Luftzeugamt would be responsible for repair of weapons/equipment. It's clear that these Kü marked Lugers have been through a depot, as they bear the Luftzeugamt eagles associated with them. With that in mind, i did some searching for possible Luftwaffe LZA facilities and found 1 perfect match:

Sagen-Küpper. Known as Küpper bei Sagen, but even better known locally as just "Küpper". So, armed with my working knowledge of the repair system used by the Germans, it seems very clear to me that the Kü marking is the marking of the Luftzuegamt repair depot at Sagen-Küpper.

The following PDF file contains info about the Sagen-Küpper airfield (P.585): http://www.ww2.dk/Airfields - Germany [1937 Borders].pdf

From that page under the History tab:

" History
: built in 1936.Luftzeugamt located there"

If this isn't the answer, I hope that my posting will cause some discussion that might lead to the answer, but I'm fairly certain that this is the answer we've all been looking for.

It's very buried if you try to Google it. You can search Kupper (without umlaut) and some more searches show up. Below is a workers badge from the Küpper LZA.
 

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Evidently it drives people crazy now knowing what Kü means. I think it's been looked at from every angle for 50 years, my work on depots just put me in the right place once I saw that photo posted of the Lebel marking.
 
The mind works in mysterious ways - and, did you happen to stay in a Holiday Inn last night?
 
The mind works in mysterious ways - and, did you happen to stay in a Holiday Inn last night?

Why I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!

I'll tell you my thought process which led to the answer. Everyone has searched for the names of LZA's, there isn't a list. So I thought, if this was a Luftwaffe facility they would 99% most likely have an airfield nearby. People LOVE airfields, and alas I found a complete list of every airfield (those airplane nuts even list grass fields from 1945). From there I found all the ones that would fit Kü (there are actually a few) but only 1 was shows to have an LZA (glad they put that info). A quick google search of LZA Kupper without the umlaut showed a few of these LZA Küpper badges which is pretty much proof in my book. Even on postcards from that area the place is called Küpper.

I'm gonna be famous now. :laugh:
 
I know the guys on the Luger board have been stumped for years so this is indeed a welcome answer to a long mystery. Even though you had probably thought about this on and off over the years, it is strange how in a certain circumstance you end up thinking about something you've tried to figure out for years and the stars just align. Well, you can rule out Alzheimer's for awhile at least! :thumbsup:
 
Them boys @ Stills owe you a complimentary Luger imo. You should @ least be memorialized.

Agonizing,fretting and theorizing for decades.....all solved for them in (1) fell swoop...and by a guy who doesnt even collect P.O8's no less.

Yep..they are indebted to you infinitum.

Perhaps a small mention in your obit would be in order......hell....a line on your tombstone would not be out of the question.
 
They probably won't believe it's true. I posted some depot build 98k's to help them along.
 
That's great stuff Farb. Well done :happy0180: It makes perfect sense. They are struggling with the information you've dropped on them. That there would not be crossover in the analysis is bizarre to me, that they would never seek out the answer with the K98k side. Logically, the same small arms repair depots did the pistols, rifles, SMGs, etc. We've been discussing this issue for a long time, with Simson having devoted a good bit of time to it. Are they resistant to the information? Perhaps it's a bit of territorialism ;) I don't see how they could have figured it out without branching out into our HZA info.
 
Show me where it's written in a book. You can't so it's fake. :facepalm:


It makes perfect sense to me Mike. Excellent detective work!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
It will probably take a while to penetrate - some of the Colt pistol boys still think 1851 Navies with a KM (no.) on the backstrap are Austrian even though they have been demonstrated to be Prussian for over 30 years...

If you thought the Kü P.08s were controversial look into so-called "Death's Head Lugers".... nobody has figured them out to everybody's satisfaction yet.
 
Are they resistant to the information? Perhaps it's a bit of territorialism ;) I don't see how they could have figured it out without branching out into our HZA info.

Tunnel vision is notoriously contagious and nothing will get poo-poo-ed quicker than an obvious answer from a knowledgeable outsider who has the temerity to offer a viable explanation for their puzzler.
I am thinking they will eventually catch on and take what has been offered as the most likely answer...but I think there will be a lot of indepth attempts to disprove it first.
 
That's the same mentality that almost birthed XRFacts as the "savior of the hobby" and what kept the Champagne rune hoax alive for 30 years ;) Sometimes people other than me and you have the answer. It's not like Farb rolled up out of the info desert like a tumbleweed. He knows.
 
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If they are smart they will take their time to understand my theory, research it, and then accept it. I'm 99% positive that this is the answer they are looking for. I have one more photo to drop on them, just waiting for permission. I'm going to post that Lebel photo.
 
Let's not beat on the Lugerites too soon - it will probably take a while for the theory to be accepted and probably not after a lot of back-and-forth. The idea will have to migrate to the Luger forum and then into the NAPCA Forum and it will take some time to be accepted and even then it probably won't be generally accepted until it makes its way into hardcopy form.
 
I agree with CB on this, it's going to take time for it to be vetted by their gurus. Perhaps I'll do an article for them.
 
I agree with CB on this, it's going to take time for it to be vetted by their gurus. Perhaps I'll do an article for them.

Good idea to publicize as widely as possible. It wouldn't hurt to do an article for AUTOMAG (NAPCA hard copy journal) as well as their website and of course for the Luger forum. An article for DWJ wouldn't hurt either. The more the merrier!

I think one of the reasons for collector tunnel vision is it is simply easier to (over)specialize than to adopt (or adapt to) what I call a cross-disciplinary approach.
 
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