pattern 1945 ammo pouch

[Amberg]

Hello,
from 1911 till early 1945 the back of the Pattern 1911 ammo pouch was made of two layers of leather. In early January 1945 this changed.
This is a true 1945 pattern with only one layer. You can clearly see the tapered layer replacing the second (full) layer.
Pouch is unmarked.

 

[Slash]

Great information and pics Wolfgang! Thanks for posting ......

 

[Amberg]

With that find, my collection is complete with the years 1928 - 1945.
Still looking for 1924 - 1927.
In 1924 the Reichswehr introduced the Pattern 1911 pouch for general use.

 

[Dave Roberts]

Wolfgang , I believe we both know of one 45 Collector who will go ( NUTS) over this Pouch. Best Regards

 

[mrfarb]

I don't think I ever noticed this manufacturing change, here's the only 45 dated pouch I have.

 

[Amberg]

Not only 1945 dated, but also the 1945 pattern. Very nice!

According to Alfred Kruk in his book about ammo pouches, ........ this change was remitted in January 1945 by the Heeres Beschaffungsamt. It is assumed that only very few companies followed this ......

I'll contact the author to find out more.

 

[mrfarb]

My friend has the same 45 date pouch as me but won't sell me his. Argh.

 

[Amberg]

Make him an offer he can not refuse! ;-)

 

[Amberg]

BTW: nice floor. looks like italian granite!?

 

[bjarne]

Great info....

Very interesting

 

[Slash]

Here is mine. Constructed of a very thin pebbled leather throughout. The leather at the back panel is particularly thin. The heaviest leather material are the belt loops. No impressed markings to the reverse but ink stamped inside the center pouch. The entire reverse side is blackened to include the metal hardware and stitching threads. All of the hardware is steel (magnetic). The rivets securing the internal dividers are hollow. Interesting that this piece has more stitching and less riveted construction than the two examples shown above. As indicated by Wolfgang, also note the short partial backing layer viewed internally as well as from the sides. It took years of searching to find a 1945 dated ammunition pouch and like Mike this is the only one in my collection. Detailed pics attached to highlight the construction techniques.

 

[Sarge]

Well, I guess I'm going to have to dig out my 98k pouches and see what I have. The only thing I'm usre of is that I have at least one dated 45.
Sarge

 

[Amberg]

I don't think I ever noticed this manufacturing change, here's the only 45 dated pouch I have.

Not sure what to make out of this one.
Probably somthing like the "L" block byf44. Dated 44, but 45 completed.
Same manufacturer as Mike's 1945 pouch.

 

[Scharf]

Hello!

I don't really know if this change was effective in 1945, I know an rbnr marked pouch from my collection that was obtained from the Royan pocket in 1945 and it doesn't have the double layer backings. I'll try showing proper pictures of the said pouch soon. Markings are Rbnr 0/0465/0012 from what I recall and it is an unknown maker.

 

[Scharf]

Here it is, just to clarify my point, I don't see how this could be a "1945 pattern" pouch as there's no way this one has ever been issued post January 1945 since the Royan pocket was cut out from the supply chain at the time.

 

[CanadianAR]

Here it is, just to clarify my point, I don't see how this could be a "1945 pattern" pouch as there's no way this one has ever been issued post January 1945 since the Royan pocket was cut out from the supply chain at the time.

Nice pouch, but what proof is there it was from that spot….i mean it doesn’t look used, so unlikely it was captured or fought to the last round in a Kassel .

 

[Scharf]

Nice pouch, but what proof is there it was from that spot….i mean it doesn’t look used, so unlikely it was captured or fought to the last round in a Kassel .

Well, it was picked but by a family member by the end of the war, of course it's a matter of believing a story as I have no hard evidence. But that's what I know, it was taken along with other pieces of equipment including a rifle by a relative in that area by the end of ww2. The rifle's stock was cut down to use it as a hunting carbine and I think the straps of the pouch were shortened for that purpose to make it easier to use. All I can see is that it has the same features as what's described as a 1945 pattern pouch but my concern is that I don't believe it to be be made in 1945. Again that's just my two cents knowing where this came from.

 

[CanadianAR]

Interesting. Always hard to say for sure, but I think the consensus is that this pattern may have been started late 44.

 

[Scharf]

Interesting. Always hard to say for sure, but I think the consensus is that this pattern may have been started late 44.

I would think so too, I've never seen 1943 dated pouches with a single back layer. I can also agree with a statement above saying that they are much more fragile and cheap. On a sidenote I think you are right in saying it didn't see intensive use even in its post ww2 life. When I picked it up it was full but silly me I got rid of the ammo and the stripper clips... Stupid gun laws in Europe.

 

[Amberg]

There is a period document known, dated January 1945 from the
"Wehrmacht Beschaffungsamt">
"Clothing and Equipment">
"Erfurt"
with a very detailed description of the ammo pouch.
It clearly says: Patronentasche 1945