From my collection. A relatively rare SG 42 assault knife with multi-functional tools, which was later to replace the classic S 84/98 pattern bayonet used on K 98k rifles. It is the second type that differs in details from the first type. The manufacturer is the Carl Eickhorn company in Solingen, and the internal tools were made by the Robert Klaas company, also from Solingen. According to the traces, the knife was actively used and deployed in combat. After the war, it remained as war booty after the retreat of German troops in Central Europe.
SG 42 rare bayonet and multi-functional knife
- Thread starter shooter45
- Start date
AndyB
Senior Member
The piece looks ok, the using of the last production bunch was only short, as there are period reports that majority of the delivery to east was captured by czech partisans in area of north Boehmen in april 1945. Later used by youth organisation of CSR. There is still blueing on pommel and scabbard clip.
Scharf
Well-known member
Easy now, what Andy's saying here is what happened to most of these sg42s, not what specifically happened to yours.
First off, unless the Sg42 in question (or any other WW2 collectible for that matter) is accompanied by repatriation documentation or a irrefutable provenance from the serviceman whom acquired it, the history of said collectible is sheer speculation. A like-new bayonet says very little where a long-fielded example often has a story to tell, were we only able to divine it.
Second, regarding Andy's commentary, he has often been able to provide a unique perspective on such items because of his geographical location in Slovakia, which we in the West cannot. In addition, his long standing as a collector/researcher has been very helpful to his fellow collectors for many years.
Was going through some information gleaned from the heyday of the BCN, concerning the Sg42. I found a four-page article from some publication ( possibly the DWJ ). There are footnotes attributing some of this information coming from the Bundesarchiv. It is auf Deutsch, but can put the pages in a PDF format and post them here should anyone be interested...
Second, regarding Andy's commentary, he has often been able to provide a unique perspective on such items because of his geographical location in Slovakia, which we in the West cannot. In addition, his long standing as a collector/researcher has been very helpful to his fellow collectors for many years.
Was going through some information gleaned from the heyday of the BCN, concerning the Sg42. I found a four-page article from some publication ( possibly the DWJ ). There are footnotes attributing some of this information coming from the Bundesarchiv. It is auf Deutsch, but can put the pages in a PDF format and post them here should anyone be interested...
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Scharf
Well-known member
,
Please do Pwcosol! It'd be enlightening to me and surely to the others like me that don't know much about the sg42s history. On the other hand I agree with what you said above, it's easy to use brute force on the internet, but it's best to mind what and how to say things to make sure we have respectful discussions.
I see that there are many individuals here who know everything, they have been everywhere. Where they haven't been, they go there and if they don't know something, they have someone on the phone who knows. I don't need to explain or apologize to someone who lives thousands of kilometers away from me. I don't need to have a document from something I have in my collection that I can take home or signed documents from non-living witnesses. People like you don't understand that the war in all of Europe finally ended in Central Europe. You only know from photos and talk about it. So here we have the real places. As a boy, I still remember the wrecks of German equipment by the road and forests full of scattered ammunition. And most things from the war period remained here, because the German army capitulated there. Instead of being happy for nice pictures of interesting things, I listen to stupid talk. I'm an old guy now and I don't need cheap and good advice. My father still remembers the second war, so I know what was going on back then. I still know a lot of things from my grandfather (born in 1910) when he was still alive and I don't need to explain something to someone why why and the like...
Scharf
Well-known member
I think you missed the point, the thing I was pointing out was merely what Andy said about how these sg42s were used post war by youth organizations and such. He did not state that it was the case for yours so no need to be in the defensive there. Moreover, I'm not questioning its authenticity as it's absolutely out of my league. But I think I'm not wrong saying this forum is more than just window shopping, that's why you'll have more questions when you tell people you're convinced it was captured, especially if nothing is documented, that's all. No one's calling you out, but on the other end if you're only here to show off and expect members to only say how much they love it... Then you're in the wrong forum. 98k forum is gold for exactly that, you get so much insight and people share so many different things, it's just really great. As a side note, I'm from Europe, my family also went through the war so you don't really need to lecture other people about that.
Here were the three PDF files of two pages each. Was unable to rotate the photos 90 degrees from the way they were photocopied. Adobe Acrobat will let you rotate the pictures clockwise if you click ">>" on the right margin of the page, but not let you "save" a copy of the photo after you rotate it (they charge for such features). Now I find out the file is "too large" to attach on this forum. Tried posting photos but they are limited in size due to the photo and that stinking bar below the picture selected showing the others in que...making the text too small to read. Tried to enlarge a photo and it just blocks more of the one selected. OK, dumped the PDF & now trying a picture image instead (seems to have worked out the best). Unfortunately, the zoom feature on this site enlarges the photo but then it exceeds the space provided. However, clicking on the "Full Screen" icon delivers a larger photo and allows for clear, readable text...yea!
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I didn't miss the point. Andy is from Slovakia, I'm from the Czech Republic. And we used to live in one state before it split into two republics in 1993. So I know that no youth organization used SG 42 after the war. That's just stupid.. Scouts were here a few years after the war before the communists cut them off after the coup in 1948. No Scouts ever officially carried the SG 42. They had at most a scout dagger with a lily mark. Then there was the CSM, who wore blue shirts and were brainwashed by communist propaganda. The content was construction, land restoration, industrial construction, etc. Then there was Svazarm - a union for cooperation with the army. Organization for modellers, radio amateurs, cynologists, sports shooters and various other hobby activities. For the little boys of the Pionýr organization and later SSM. Anyone who wanted to hunt became a member of a hunting association. Nobody in these communist organizations ever officially carried any cold weapons. So I know what I'm talking about. And as for the K98k forum, I'm glad it exists. I don't need to brag and get likes. That's what facebook and shite like that is for. But if you don't put photos of original things and weapons here as they should look in their original state, then individuals and beginners will not know at all how to recognize the original from a copy. And that's the point of the forum. Good pictures (photos) tell you more than the written word. And because there is a language barrier and google translator translates nonsense, the essence of the matter escapes. Although the intention was good.
AndyB
Senior Member
My friend had the piece directly from a old guy of Turnov area,which was part of Sudetenland the guy got it in period of 1945-48 as a skaut of a Sokol unit and their Youth organisation, which was post 1948 by communist forbidden, i saw minimum 10 pcs in excellent never touched condition going from the area of north czechia and moravia. The guy mentioned that the boxes of unisued S42 were found in wagon of Turnov in april 1945. I couldnt confirm it, as i was not there, anyway similar bayonets were found mainly in north Bohemia and north Moravia region, not first time, You should ask mr. Vladimir Dokonal well known moravian bayonet collector.
And offcoarse the knives were holding by owners and not returned to communist post 1948. And You have right this was not officially apointed to the scouts. Certainly it was not full quantity of found items, secondly it was used by them as the easiest way to become a tool knife in that period that were avialable.
But You could get Yours piece from other area offcoarse.
And offcoarse the knives were holding by owners and not returned to communist post 1948. And You have right this was not officially apointed to the scouts. Certainly it was not full quantity of found items, secondly it was used by them as the easiest way to become a tool knife in that period that were avialable.
But You could get Yours piece from other area offcoarse.
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AndyB
Senior Member
Here is a piece buyed by my other collector friend, in 2016 in Vienna from a north czech area collector, the blueing is intact even on ricasso of blade, the blueing is good visible on all parts of clip and pommel, the piece had a sharpened blade, which was done evidently postwar, i never saw a total untouched tool insert inside as it was inside. Unfortunally the picture is not great. Mr. Dokonal sold in years to my collector friends minimum 3 other of this type, 2 of them were well used.
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In addition, it can be said that what you describe happened in all cities throughout the country. There were parked and abandoned military trains at the stations. Or there were abandoned columns of military equipment and loaded supply trucks on the roads. People took anything. It was free and no one missed it. I do not know the collector you mention, nor have I ever heard of him. I am from a completely different part of the country, although I know where Turnov is.
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
can we see the internal tools?
AndyB
Senior Member
V. Dokonal is a legend in czech collector community but he is expert on socket bayonets. I assume You known people from Strelecka revue or from VHU Prague. They all known mr.Dokonal.
About the abandoned wagons and supply You could be right, unfortunally only few boxes were found with S42 bayonets, and large number of them in north czechia area, that was confirmed from various collectors.
You dont writed from what source You have Your piece or location? Thanks.
About the abandoned wagons and supply You could be right, unfortunally only few boxes were found with S42 bayonets, and large number of them in north czechia area, that was confirmed from various collectors.
You dont writed from what source You have Your piece or location? Thanks.
