tgf50 comparison

H

harry potter

Well-known member
Hopefully this will be of interest to some readers here. I have two post war Czech K98 TGF50. They are starting to pop up on some auction sites so this tread might be of interest. I am not especially attracted to them, but I inherited two of them (along with several other guns) and I thought the comparison would be interesting. I have taken photos of the two guns side by each and individually so the readers can appreciate the differences between these guns. These guns couldn’t be more different, except for the condition of the barrel that turns out to be very similar.
 

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I am familiar with the East Germany production, and the rifle with the rough finish and re-purposed laminated wartime wood carries the East Germany proof marks in addition to the more faint Czech proofmarks. The rifle with the nicer finish and new hardwood stock only carries Czech proof marks. I have a hard time imagining that TGF would produce two separate lines of rifles with two different finishes, so I am inclined to think that at one point TGF reclaimed some unsold guns and refinished them for commercial sales?
 

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The East German rifle looks like it has gone through a number of busy hands, and I don’t know what was the original condition of the rifle when it left tgf, what was done while in East German service and what may have been done once on the surplus market. It would be interesting to see photos of an un-messed-with East German. The stock is a wartime laminate that is a little rough with obvious repairs and it almost looks like the serial number on the receiver was stamped with the gun installed in the stock. I find it hard to believe that such a stock would be fitted to the gun either by tgf or by the East Germans while the gun was in service. If the receiver has been renumbered post East German service I don’t know why anyone would bother trying to match this gun’s serial number with its other components; we’re not talking a collector’s item here… The last photo shows the barrel channel of the hardwood stock from the refinished rifle. There are no markings inside whatsoever that I could see.
 

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The front sights of both rifles are slotted for the wartime-styled hood although the one with the rough finish carries the post war style Czech attachment instead.
 

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The first two photos are from the East German rifle, the last three are from the refinished rifle. As mentioned this is the only thing where the rifles are similar and why I can say that that the rifle is refinished despite its new appearance.
 

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The one with the rough finish has a completely mismatched bolt and I don’t know if that was done while in East German service or if it was delivered that way. The one that has been refinished only carries the SN on the bolt.
 

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harry potter said:
I am familiar with the East Germany production, and the rifle with the rough finish and re-purposed laminated wartime wood carries the East Germany proof marks in addition to the more faint Czech proofmarks. The rifle with the nicer finish and new hardwood stock only carries Czech proof marks. I have a hard time imagining that TGF would produce two separate lines of rifles with two different finishes, so I am inclined to think that at one point TGF reclaimed some unsold guns and refinished them for commercial sales?
Click to expand...
East Germany never made any K98k that I know of, but they did rework them. This one received a new barrel made by VEB Thälmann (1001) and was reproofed in accordance with German proof law. The DDR also made replacement laminate stocks which is probably what is on this one. The gun is rough because it's had a hard life, but it would have looked like any other tgf rifle when new. It probably wouldn't have been marked by the DDR until rework.

Looks like your barrel is marked 'MdI' (Ministeriums des Innern) so I would guess it was reworked by or for the VoPo or KdA. Neat!
 
Your other tgf was actually modified/reworked I assume by the Czechs for a police contract to Denmark I think? Some European police force ordered them and yours is one of those. Been a while since I was told the story about how these came in and from where.
 
RyanE said:
East Germany never made any K98k that I know of, but they did rework them. This one received a new barrel made by VEB Thälmann (1001) and was reproofed in accordance with German proof law. The DDR also made replacement laminate stocks which is probably what is on this one. The gun is rough because it's had a hard life, but it would have looked like any other tgf rifle when new. It probably wouldn't have been marked by the DDR until rework.
Click to expand...
Your are correct of course. I should have said "...produced by the Czech for East Germany".
Thank you for the insight into the laminate replacement stocks. I didn't know DDR made them. Any insight into the bolt situation?
 
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Good god, the notch thats cut into the sight leaf so that you can attain your sight picture is massive. The east german one with most of its bluing worn off. It also has the look of a romanian used k98k, interesting. Both are interesting rifles to say the least.
 
bnz41john said:
Good god, the notch thats cut into the sight leaf so that you can attain your sight picture is massive. The east german one with most of its bluing worn off. It also has the look of a romanian used k98k, interesting. Both are interesting rifles to say the least.
Click to expand...
Yeah that's more a channel than a notch isn't it. The finish seems to be uniform between the rear sight and the barrel so I can only guess that notch was made by the DDR users.
 
Very interesting pieces! From my observations, a new tgf 1950 would have looked like the one with the dark finish. Not only that those had an almost black finish, they also had walnut stocks with takedown hole in the buttplate, but also a very unique set of lower barrel band and trigger guard. No other Mauser shows these parts in this specific shape. There are pix of East German police forces and Betriebskampfgruppen members with those specific guns. I also know of almost new tgf 1950s which had their barrel replaced and reproofed in Suhl like this one here.
It is known that a bunch of tgf 1950s of East German origin have been exported to Iraq, and the rough tgf here looks like one of them. Very much, that is! And did you see the repairs in the stock? Those wooden inserts; this very special way of repair is normaly seen on British guns. I don't think, a German armourer would have repaired this stock this way. But Iraq and its armed forces had seen some considerable British influence so an Iraqi armourer is, in my opinion, much more likely to have done such a repair.

Greetings

T
 
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It was produced in 1950 for Czechoslovak army and post 1954 exported to DDR as ally help, so not made for DDR offcoarse. Here with various mixed parts same as with new DDR Reproofs.
 
That's interesting! Are there any numbers, verified by government records?? I've seen serial numbers reaching almost the 20.000 mark.
Is there any info which way the tgfs went? To GDR en bloc and then to Iraq? Or was there one lot shipped to GDR and another one shipped to the Middle East?

Many thanks!

T
 
These "tgf 1950" coded rifles at one time were very plentiful in Canada, but not so much here in the USA. My example is DDR marked but has a old style trigger guard and bands with matching numbers. As posted above most of these has a unique trigger guard assembly and bands. I've often wondered were my bands and trigger guard shipped from the factory like this or were they changed by the DDR. Irregardless these are very interesting post war variants.F8CA42E2-CB38-476F-9FEA-AE1D8D6367B4.jpeg
 
The rifles K98k went firstly to GDR and later were outsaled to Iraq as many are VoPo marked. There exist certainly numbers ordered by CS army, but 20000 is low. I dont have it.
 
I don't think the trigger guard and bands on mine are either but all are matching numbers. Could the Czechs used left over parts from when they were occupied? My bayonet is coded TGF also.
 
The old parts were used prior 1946, tgf 1950 personally dont believe there should be any german proofed parts.
 
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