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Need help with Gustloff assembled DUV 42

ltong29

ltong29

Senior Member
I acquired a Gustloff assembled DUV 42 rifle (indicated by the E/749 final acceptance). Barrel is a FN made one (Waa140 markings on the barrel). Here's what matches: receiver, sight assembly, magazine, trigger guard, front band, and bolt (mostly/possibly). The rear band, band spring, and stock do not match (I'm assuming the stock doesn't match based on the WaA655 and different serial on the bayo lug). However, the recoil lug has an f, indicating manufacture by H. Karl Heise. I haven't been able to get the bands off yet, so I haven't gotten the channel serial yet. Also, the stock supplier code follows the Gustloff style of date over code. My first question is did either Oberndorf use H. Karl Heise recoil lugs, Gustloff use Oberndorf bayo lugs, or is the stock a Gustloff and the bayo lug not original to the rifle. Secondly, I noticed the bolt root numbering looks off. Also, the letter doesn't match as it looks like a b. Is the bolt root/body bad? Most of the bolt numbering looks good to me and have the "e" supplier code. Beneath the bolt is an astrawerke proof. Also, the number is upside down. Is it possible an armorer replaced it?
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there's a 41 or a 44 on the butt. is that a 1944 stock? if so a gustloff stock with an earlier (655) MO bayo lug added later. if that's a 1941 stock there's a good chance it will match the receiver. Gustloff stocks had a C stamped on the keel. MO stocks have a E/135 stamped on right stock by disc.
 
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ac4142 said:
there's a 41 or a 44 on the butt. is that a 1944 stock? if so a gustloff stock with an earlier (655) MO bayo lug added later. if that's a 1941 stock there's a good chance it will match the receiver. Gustloff stocks had a C stamped on the keel. MO stocks have a E/135 stamped on right stock by disc.
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I don't think that the stock is from 1941 or 1944, the laminate code "MÜ" wouldn't suit to that time frame. In general there is a mistake with the stock completion date code, usually the date format follows day - week - year. In this case we have the stock completion date code "MÜ 7 44 32", it would be 7th day of 32nd week of 1944 if we would assume they interchanged the week and year. But because of the reason mentioned above, I don't think that's the case and it's not from 1944.
I assume they followed day - week - year and the stock maker interchanged the die stamp "3" and "4" when the year got stamped. I think the correct stock completion date code is "MÜ 7 44 42". It would be November 1, 1942 and it would fit into the time frame of the other Gustloff rifles with the code "duv 42" in the "r" block.

The probability is high that the stock is matching. It would be nice to see some more detail photos of the stock and to confirm it with the serial in the barrel channel of the stock.
 
It looks to me as though the rifle has gone through some heavy cleaning, perhaps to remove rusting. The front band in particular appears this way and that also would account for the mottled appearance on the metal.

Having said that, this is a very interesting rifle! Thank you for sharing it and welcome to the forum!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
8x57IS said:
I don't think that the stock is from 1941 or 1944, the laminate code "MÜ" wouldn't suit to that time frame. In general there is a mistake with the stock completion date code, usually the date format follows day - week - year. In this case we have the stock completion date code "MÜ 7 44 32", it would be 7th day of 32nd week of 1944 if we would assume they interchanged the week and year. But because of the reason mentioned above, I don't think that's the case and it's not from 1944.
I assume they followed day - week - year and the stock maker interchanged the die stamp "3" and "4" when the year got stamped. I think the correct stock completion date code is "MÜ 7 44 42". It would be November 1, 1942 and it would fit into the time frame of the other Gustloff rifles with the code "duv 42" in the "r" block.

The probability is high that the stock is matching. It would be nice to see some more detail photos of the stock and to confirm it with the serial in the barrel channel of the stock.
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makes sense. i wasn't quite sure of that code's meaning so i shouldn't have chimed in. cool coded rifle!
 
ac4142 said:
makes sense. i wasn't quite sure of that code's meaning so i shouldn't have chimed in. cool coded rifle!
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No, it's nice you have chimed in and a conversation is always a good thing. :happy0180: That's one of many reasons why I like this forum so much, the conversations are great and you can learn so much when you read all the interesting threads.
 
8x57IS said:
I assume they followed day - week - year and the stock maker interchanged the die stamp "3" and "4" when the year got stamped. I think the correct stock completion date code is "MÜ 7 44 42". It would be November 1, 1942 and it would fit into the time frame of the other Gustloff rifles with the code "duv 42" in the "r" block.

The probability is high that the stock is matching. It would be nice to see some more detail photos of the stock and to confirm it with the serial in the barrel channel of the stock.
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That's a great catch and fits perfectly. I also think he'll find the stock is matching. Even with the rust I think it's quite an interesting piece.
 
8x57IS said:
No, it's nice you have chimed in and a conversation is always a good thing. :happy0180: That's one of many reasons why I like this forum so much, the conversations are great and you can learn so much when you read all the interesting threads.
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:happy0180:
 
So i managed to get the bands off and the wood is matching, so good call on that one. Guess they made a mistake on the laminate code year (should be 42, not 32). Band spring is a WaA37 marked and not matching (Serial 7632). Barrel code is CH 302 41 and some logo. I find it interesting that they used a 1941 barrel. There's no starburst on it. Rear band isn't matching, but is E/1 inspected. Interestingly, the bayo lug seems pretty loose and has a little wobble to it. The pin isn't flush and sits a little into the hole. No idea if it was done by a previous owner or by someone in the field. Any insights or info on the bolt numbering?
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ltong29 said:
Barrel code is CH 302 41 and some logo. I find it interesting that they used a 1941 barrel.
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It's a FN (Fabrique Nationale) finished barrel and it's not the only example, there are more of these 1941 dated barrels in the "r" block, but the most which I know are from 1943. The logo should be from the barrel blank provider, FN received semi-finished blanks.
 
8x57IS said:
It's a FN (Fabrique Nationale) finished barrel and it's not the only example, there are more of these 1941 dated barrels in the "r" block, but the most which I know are from 1943. The logo should be from the barrel blank provider, FN received semi-finished blanks.
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Thank you. The blank supplier is the bit I can't work out.
 
8x57IS said:
..I know just a few FN barrels with the "Fo" logo, unfortunately I have no answer.
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Bringing this back for another go around. Anyone have thoughts on who this supplier might be? I know there were lot's of smaller mills but surely someone knows who this is? barrel supplier.PNG

I'm guessing somewhere in the low countries maybe?
 
We have discussed this before, - as 8x57 states, FN used semi-finished blanks and there is a lot of diversity in the barrel blank markings, whereas most German barrel makers used raw forgings and the process of finishing the barrel removed the suppliers markings (which the finisher had to re-apply, typically in a consistent pattern), FN was an exception. because of this we typically find barrels such as this, barrels with unique trademarks and logos.

It is very likely these semi-finished barrels were delivered from Belgian, French or Luxembourg steel mills, - all three countries had vibrant steel industries at the time, before the occupation, and we know from books on the German occupation (a couple good books have been written on the German occupation and exploitation of the western states, especially the Netherlands and the Czech Republic) that early on the German authorities allowed these firms to continue with production. This seemingly an effort to consume the raw materials on hand at these factories, AI a prime example, where barrel blanks were finished and subsequently delivered to Gustloff-Werke Weimar (bcd).

I have spent a considerable amount of time looking for steel maker trademarks, especially smaller operations in France, Belgium and Luxembourg, but haven't been able to match these markings. Old trade journals are a good source for trademarks and has worked well in the past, - the German trade journals of the period are especially helpful in this regard (back then Germany was an industrial powerhouse... today of course people make a lot of Germany's industrial output, but like with America and England, it is a mere shadow of what it was back then, even in the 1920's Germany was a far more impressive industrial state, but so was America...)

In short these markings represent some obscure steel mill, probably not German though, - the German steel industry went through a thorough restructuring and consolidation in the late 1920's. Most small operations were merged/consumed by larger trusts.
 
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Thanks Loewe. Good on the suspected 'where', but nothing on the 'who'. I guess that will have to go unsolved at least for now. I did try using a cleaned up image of the logo and searching for matches to that, but no luck that way either.
 
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