Questionable Factory Helmets
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M45
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NEW! Item 888 M42 single decal army helmet
http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm
This is a very nice and completely honest example of what I like to call "The Quintessential German WW2 Combat helmet"; the M42 single decal army. The helmet is an Hkp64. The wartime textured paint remains 95%+ intact. The texture and the matte appearance of the paint are quite good and it has not been made shiny by collector handling. The decal is a Huber Jordan type which mainly exists as a after-factory reissue type but is one of the types used by Hkp as factory application. It remains 98% intact. The leather liner is sound and sturdy. The chinstrap is by all indications; original to the helmet. Price $1150.00
This appears to be a late hkp M42, the lot# I read to be 5015, well into no-decal territory. The HJ&K Heer decal was not used by the SE/hkp factory to my knowledge, only the ET Heer decal.
The paint color looks like the slate color used by hkp occasionally later in the war after the 8-28-43 decal drop.
Ken's new decal book does not specify which Heer decal(s) is found on hkp M42 helmets. There was a dealer slapping these HJ&K decals on every ND helmet he could find; this may be one of them.
The newness of the decal jumps right off of that 70 year old paint, doesn't it ?? The garage paint drips are a nice touch.
M42 hkp64 3428 SD HEER ZSH RM RTGG ET-DECAL LAST KNOWN SD HEER
M42 hkp64 5015 ND RTGG ZSH RM
I don't know about you, but I feel so much better about paying an original price for a postwar modified helmet when someone mentions the word 'honesty' : )
EDIT 9/5/2022: I recall this helmet being downgraded as a postwar modified helmet and sold for $500. Ken must have read this post. Quite a difference in price between original and postwar modified helmets.
http://www.germanhelmetsinc.com/helmetssale.htm
This is a very nice and completely honest example of what I like to call "The Quintessential German WW2 Combat helmet"; the M42 single decal army. The helmet is an Hkp64. The wartime textured paint remains 95%+ intact. The texture and the matte appearance of the paint are quite good and it has not been made shiny by collector handling. The decal is a Huber Jordan type which mainly exists as a after-factory reissue type but is one of the types used by Hkp as factory application. It remains 98% intact. The leather liner is sound and sturdy. The chinstrap is by all indications; original to the helmet. Price $1150.00
This appears to be a late hkp M42, the lot# I read to be 5015, well into no-decal territory. The HJ&K Heer decal was not used by the SE/hkp factory to my knowledge, only the ET Heer decal.
The paint color looks like the slate color used by hkp occasionally later in the war after the 8-28-43 decal drop.
Ken's new decal book does not specify which Heer decal(s) is found on hkp M42 helmets. There was a dealer slapping these HJ&K decals on every ND helmet he could find; this may be one of them.
The newness of the decal jumps right off of that 70 year old paint, doesn't it ?? The garage paint drips are a nice touch.
M42 hkp64 3428 SD HEER ZSH RM RTGG ET-DECAL LAST KNOWN SD HEER
M42 hkp64 5015 ND RTGG ZSH RM
I don't know about you, but I feel so much better about paying an original price for a postwar modified helmet when someone mentions the word 'honesty' : )
EDIT 9/5/2022: I recall this helmet being downgraded as a postwar modified helmet and sold for $500. Ken must have read this post. Quite a difference in price between original and postwar modified helmets.
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Remarkably, I just found this thread looking for hkp lot number date code correlation for a ND helmet I posted recently on ghw.
http://www.ghw2.com/topic/54633-m42-nd-hkp64/
At first I thought the lot was 5645, but it may be 5045. I think the one on Ken N's site "The Quintessential German WW2 Combat helmet"; has exactly the same lot number (The 1 is actually a 4). Even the stamping has the the same depth and position for each character.
http://www.ghw2.com/topic/54633-m42-nd-hkp64/
At first I thought the lot was 5645, but it may be 5045. I think the one on Ken N's site "The Quintessential German WW2 Combat helmet"; has exactly the same lot number (The 1 is actually a 4). Even the stamping has the the same depth and position for each character.
Remarkably, I found this thread on this forum after looking for a date correlation for a hkp64 ND helmet I posted recently on ghw. Here:
http://www.ghw2.com/topic/54633-m42-nd-hkp64/
At first I thought the lot number may be 5645, but it may be 5045. The 4 is well defined.
When I look at the lot stamp on "The Quintessential German WW2 Combat helmet" on Ken's site it appears to be the exactly the same number (the 1 could be a 4) The depth and relative position of the stamping of each character seems to match mine.
http://www.ghw2.com/topic/54633-m42-nd-hkp64/
At first I thought the lot number may be 5645, but it may be 5045. The 4 is well defined.
When I look at the lot stamp on "The Quintessential German WW2 Combat helmet" on Ken's site it appears to be the exactly the same number (the 1 could be a 4) The depth and relative position of the stamping of each character seems to match mine.
Eurofighter
Well-known member
mauser99
Senior Member
Sorry shell is clearly marked HKP more than one shell maker can have the same lot #
M45
Well-known member
I would be interested to know the liner band date, should be 1943 or 1944. If 1944 that would be past the 28aug43 decal drop order.
Also, the HJ&K heer decal does not belong on that shell unless it was a reissue (hkp used ET heer decals exclusively IMO).
AND don't forget the decal itself which appears unissued/brand new against the aged finish.
M45
Well-known member
The new decal book is quite surprising in that 5 pages were devoted to children's toy helmets (which almost no one collects) but the reader is left guessing as to which factory Heer decals are found on M40 and M42 helmets.
M45
Well-known member
ORG TODT single insignia on a qvL shell.
My gut feeling is that this ORG TODT decal is a fantasy decal. No period photos exist of it IMO. Org Todt troopers are shown with Heer decals. (p.237)
The write up in Ken's decal book is not very reassuring: he has found several decals which are graphically identical and distinct from others. I guess that makes them authentic.
I also believe that the ORG TODT stenciled insignia is a postwar concoction.
Most have been found in France and have been known to collectors since the 1970s. Champagne SS had also been known to collectors since the 1970s.
"The Helmet Decals of the Third Reich" Ken Niewiarowicz pp. 237-239
My gut feeling is that this ORG TODT decal is a fantasy decal. No period photos exist of it IMO. Org Todt troopers are shown with Heer decals. (p.237)
The write up in Ken's decal book is not very reassuring: he has found several decals which are graphically identical and distinct from others. I guess that makes them authentic.
I also believe that the ORG TODT stenciled insignia is a postwar concoction.
Most have been found in France and have been known to collectors since the 1970s. Champagne SS had also been known to collectors since the 1970s.
"The Helmet Decals of the Third Reich" Ken Niewiarowicz pp. 237-239
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M45
Well-known member
https://www.ratisbons.com/shop/MILITARIA/Headgear/
It looks like dealers are having difficulty finding decent factory helmet stock. I know dealers have had difficulty finding decent camo stock.
Here beat helmets are being sold as is. Elsewhere they "grow" components such as bailing wire, chicken wire, camo paint, woodchips, concrete, a ghosted net/wire configuration, etc...
It looks like dealers are having difficulty finding decent factory helmet stock. I know dealers have had difficulty finding decent camo stock.
Here beat helmets are being sold as is. Elsewhere they "grow" components such as bailing wire, chicken wire, camo paint, woodchips, concrete, a ghosted net/wire configuration, etc...
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M45
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WWII German Helmets - Original WW2 Helmets - German War Helmet
100% original WW II German Helmets & Militaria - WWII German Helmets, German Army Helmets, Luftwaffe Helmets, Waffen SS Helmets, German Helmet Camo, WW2
germanwarhelmet.com
WWII German Helmets - Original WW2 Helmets - German War Helmet
100% original WW II German Helmets & Militaria - WWII German Helmets, German Army Helmets, Luftwaffe Helmets, Waffen SS Helmets, German Helmet Camo, WW2
germanwarhelmet.com
WW2 M40 Q64 German Wehrmacht Helmet
Item H695: These are becoming harder and harder to find because it is a perfect blank palette for the counterfeiters. It is a rear stamped Quist M40 which was issued from the factory with zero decals. The Third Reich only issued rear stamped Quist M40 helmets with decals on Combat Polizei helmets. Nothing else. If you encounter an M40 rear stamped Quist with decals other than Polizei decals it’s a fake. Anyway, Super tight fitting liner system 100% original to the helmet. All three untouched split pin rivet fasteners intact and complete with all three slotted washers. Pig skin leather liner is undamaged, fully pliable and has taken on a darkened aged appearance. Drawstring in full length with original factory knot still in place. Buckle end of chinstrap is steel. Long portion of strap is fully pliable but has been cut down about an inch to accommodate the soldier which was not uncommon. Overall excellent condition. Price: $1150
These are becoming harder and harder to find because it is a perfect blank palette for the counterfeiters.
In this case, the helmet itself is not questionable; it is 100% authentic. It is the description of the helmet that is questionable.
When dealers go into detail about why their common no-decal helmets should command super-high prices due to fakery, I just feel like I'm being played for a fool. As the description goes, counterfeiters have been using no-decal helmets as the perfect blank palette to modify them into something they never were to sell for higher prices. And yes, for decades dealers have been deeply involved with such helmets. But now, since so many ND helmets have been postwar modified, the existing untouched ND helmets are more difficult to find, thus the higher prices !! Talk about a marketing strategy !!
The Third Reich only issued rear stamped Quist M40 helmets with decals on Combat Polizei helmets. Nothing else. If you encounter an M40 rear stamped Quist with decals other than Polizei decals it’s a fake.
This is a common misconception, that EVERY rear stamped Q M40 helmet with decals other than Field Police is fake. I suppose they just like to Keep It Simple, Stupid (KISS). It is not surprising that dealers are peddling questionable information along with all of their other questionable wares.
The rear marked Quist M40 helmets appear at around Lot# DN300 and are seen mixed with Side Marked (SM) helmets to lot# DN361 where is found the last SD HEER helmet.
Rear marked Quist M40 helmets are seen as SD SS, SD Heer, SD Luft and DD Field police (factory Quist decals all) in addition to ND Green-gray and ND slate gray and a Beaded helmet.
(A significant number of Side Marked-SM helmets are also seen in this range but I did not list them. I was concentrating on Rear Marked-RM decaled helmets.)
M40 Q64 DN301 SD SS ZSH RTGG Q-SS 41STRAP SM/RM SAME LOT#
M40 Q64 DN323 SD HEER BF ZSH, ZPG RTGG SM/RM SAME LOT#
M40 Q64 DN327 SD LUFT ZSH RM RTBG ET/LUFT
M40 Q64 DN331 SD HEER BF ZSH, ZPG RTGG 40STRAP-LEON H.BECK SM/RM SAME LOT#
M40 Q64 DN343 SD HEER BF ZSH RTGG SM/RM
M40 Q64 DN343 DD POLI BD ZSH RTGG RM TILT
M40 Q64 DN345 SD HEER BF ZSH RM RTGG JAW-LESS BF (ref: Ken N. II p.61 bottom)
M40 Q64 DN348 SD HEER BF ZSH RTGG RM 43STRAP/RBSTRAP
M40 Q64 DN348 DD POLI BD ZSH RM RTGG
M40 Q64 DN348 ND RTGG ZSH RM (I N348 ERROR) (GENERAL ISSUE)
M40 Q64 DN350 SD HEER BF ZSH RTGG RM
M40 Q66 DN355 SD LUFT ZSH SM RTBG ET/LUFT LAST KNOWN SD LUFT
M40 Q64 DN356 SD HEER BF ZSH RTGG RM
M40 Q64 DN357 SD SS 42ZPG/STRAP-G.SCHIELE SM RTGG Q-SS (LAST CONFIRMED Q-SS)
M40 Q64 DN358 SD HEER BF 43ZSH-DRP, ZPG RM RTGG IKA43-RIVETS RBNr. STRAP-0/0950/0302 Juni43-LINER INKSTAMP
M40 Q64 DN359 SD HEER BF ZSH RM RTGG 43STRAP-gtg
M40 Q64 DN359 DD POLI BD ZSH, ZPG RM SLATE TILT 2-SEAM LINER 57cm
M40 Q64 DN359 BEAD ND SFDB-SATIN FINISH DARK BLUE RM (USE UNKNOWN)
M40 Q64 DN360 SD HEER BF ZSH RTGG RM
M40 Q64 DN360 DD POLI BD ZSH RM RTGG
M40 Q64 DN360 ND SLATE 42ZSH RM (GENERAL ISSUE)
M40 Q64 DN360 ND RTGG ZSH RM (GENERAL ISSUE)
M40 Q64 DN361 SD HEER BF 43ZPG-FWM RM SLATE STRAP-Henseler&Co LAST SD HEER
M40 Q64 DN361 ND SLATE, RTGG ZSH, ZPG RM
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M45
Well-known member
SE64 4464 rear markings. I know of no such SE marked M42s. The hkp mark started during later SE factory M40 production. All M42s by this factory were marked hkp as per my own experience. All fake components as well. Ventilation holes are incorrect for this factory. Paint is incorrect.
This helmet sold on German Ebay for nearly $200 USD. Novice collectors could well be sucked in by this nonsense.
As I see militaria collecting in general, it seems 50% of those involved are out to screw you; 25% could not care less if you get screwed; and 25% are actually there to help you.
This helmet sold on German Ebay for nearly $200 USD. Novice collectors could well be sucked in by this nonsense.
As I see militaria collecting in general, it seems 50% of those involved are out to screw you; 25% could not care less if you get screwed; and 25% are actually there to help you.
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M45
Well-known member
WW2 German Army double decal M35 steel helmet by F.W. Quist G.m.b.H., Esslingen
Model 1935 steel helmet, with Heer decal (95% present) to left side and national tricolour decal (95% present), with excellent bottle green coloured finish to body, with light wear. Retains leather liner, showing use, with all fingers present, showing light service, with leather chinstrap. Steel shell maker stamped Q64 and 269 to rear skirt. Scarce.
$5,495.00
SOLD
I don't believe there is anything original here. Movie props are getting expensive.
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M45
Well-known member
H-220
WW2 German Model 1942 Luftwaffe Single Decal Helmet-This example has a rough texture, blue grey finish that remains mostly intact. The decal is 80% intact. The interior has a brown leather, size 56 liner which has minor discoloration only. A very unique feature is the perforated forehead which I am certain was done by the wearer, who also wrote his name onto the liner. There is a drawstring and a zinc liner band. The side of the interior is stamped ET 64 indicating production by Eisenhuttenwerke of Thale in the size of 64. The rear skirt is stamped with the lot number 1535 indicating 1942 production. There is a dark brown leather chinstrap that is in fine condition as well. Excellent!
It is a good idea for German helmet collectors to be well familiar with postwar stahlhelms such as West German. This liner brow perforation was used on 1970s era west german M40s. This liner was apparently fitted to an original band. Notice extra bends on rivet legs.
Also interesting is how dealers will become certain of the authenticity of unusal aspects of the helmets they are selling. (I knew that snow camo was authentic the second I laid my eyes on it)-Ken N.
Re: Sham pain SS ruins: (I just considered them part of the SS decal pantheon). Kelly H.
WW2 German Model 1942 Luftwaffe Single Decal Helmet
https://www.therupturedduck.com/col...rman-model-1942-luftwaffe-single-decal-helmet- $ 1,250.00
WW2 German Model 1942 Luftwaffe Single Decal Helmet-This example has a rough texture, blue grey finish that remains mostly intact. The decal is 80% intact. The interior has a brown leather, size 56 liner which has minor discoloration only. A very unique feature is the perforated forehead which I am certain was done by the wearer, who also wrote his name onto the liner. There is a drawstring and a zinc liner band. The side of the interior is stamped ET 64 indicating production by Eisenhuttenwerke of Thale in the size of 64. The rear skirt is stamped with the lot number 1535 indicating 1942 production. There is a dark brown leather chinstrap that is in fine condition as well. Excellent!
It is a good idea for German helmet collectors to be well familiar with postwar stahlhelms such as West German. This liner brow perforation was used on 1970s era west german M40s. This liner was apparently fitted to an original band. Notice extra bends on rivet legs.
Also interesting is how dealers will become certain of the authenticity of unusal aspects of the helmets they are selling. (I knew that snow camo was authentic the second I laid my eyes on it)-Ken N.
Re: Sham pain SS ruins: (I just considered them part of the SS decal pantheon). Kelly H.
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