Unusual G43

[mrfarb]

Eger, you didn't cause any controversy, open and free discussion about the OP's rifle is needed to shed light on it. I have no illusions that the P.38's U marking have a direct connection to the subject K43, and nobody else should either. I also don't think the location of assembly (Walther proper or Nuengamme) is of much concern to the rifle, as both were run by the same company.

In my opinion the "U" markings used to cancel waffenamt controlled parts is also not something you can say is uniform to the P.38 - the Spreewerk factory could have used the U in a different manner, meaning they used it to approve the pistols (and parts) outside of the Waffenamt control for their own reasons.

 

[Hambone]

No villains here. This is an intellectual debate/discussion on an informative topic that we all benefit from. That it is tinged with some past issues and shots is not unusual. However, after speaking with both sides I can say that we are all on the same side and there is far more in common and courtesy in both sides. Certainly we can all learn from each other and certainly we need to stick together. No one person has a lock on all the information, but together we probably can get close. Thank you to both sides of this for your courtesies. Please feel free to contact me if I can be of assistance.

 

[NukemFG4A]

Well, thank you to everyone who has contributed to this.

It seems we got a little off track here, but lets continue this thread in the right direction.

Hopefully we can figure something out. Maybe we never will figure anything out. But interesting none the less.

 

[Slash]

Good thread here with thought provoking information from several contributors. In our hobby it is important to remember that although we long for quick and precise answers it often requires years of examination and research to make learned determinations. AND some of our questions will never be answered conclusively.

 

[M1903A3]

No villains here. This is an intellectual debate/discussion on an informative topic that we all benefit from. That it is tinged with some past issues and shots is not unusual. However, after speaking with both sides I can say that we are all on the same side and there is far more in common and courtesy in both sides. Certainly we can all learn from each other and certainly we need to stick together. No one person has a lock on all the information, but together we probably can get close. Thank you to both sides of this for your courtesies. Please feel free to contact me if I can be of assistance.

Well said Hambone (as always) and I agree, what struck me is that these subjects are so complex that even at this late date the “K98 camp” and the “P38 camp” cannot be sure about markings or production even with the tremendous research both camps have done. As Slash says some things we may never know, but if we are to ever unravel all the mysteries it will take all the specializations working together. This thread is proof that there are still things to discover, and it’s nice to see that we can come together to thoroughly analyze things with fresh sets of eyes.

Now I have to find and subscribe to this P38 group!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tiger 2 Tank]

Now I have to find and subscribe to this P38 group!!

www.p38forum.com

 

[kar66]

P38 Experts

I was very happy to see that Dave and Ron had saw this thread and shared their knowledge about the "u" marking on P38s. When I first saw this thread I remembered the one on so marked P38s and went back on the P38 Forum and reread it. Like most everybody here I saw they were not the same but may be related. I would like to thank them for sharing their thoughts and knowledge here.

 

[NukemFG4A]

I was very happy to see that Dave and Ron had saw this thread and shared their knowledge about the "u" marking on P38s. When I first saw this thread I remembered the one on so marked P38s and went back on the P38 Forum and reread it. Like most everybody here I saw they were not the same but may be related. I would like to thank them for sharing their thoughts and knowledge here.

Well, these images Eger posted....sure does look the same.




how to host images

 

[Tiger 2 Tank]

Sure does.

 

[Slash]

While reading through this thread I remembered owning a bayonet that might have a similar marking. When I was able to locate the piece the marking was not what I remembered but will share the details regardless. This may be completely unrelated to the U stampings found on G/K43 and P.38 but thought it might be of interest none the less. The attached photos are from a middle period (1939 - '40) Alexander Coppel behoerden bayonet stamped with police eagle on the spine. The blade is stamped with the AWS and scales maker's mark. The MÜ stamping is located to the reverse of the scabbard ball or finial. This is the location where most military contract scabbards would be marked with a stick wing eagle WaA acceptance stamping. In this case it does not appear to be stamped over a WaA as discussed previously in the thread. The police eagle to the spine and the MÜ are the only markings. Interesting to note that the U is with umlaut.

 

[Hambone]

Well, these images Eger posted....sure does look the same.




how to host images

This has assuredly been addressed, but various nations have stamped and marked certain pistols for training and instruction purposes. It was done to the GP.35 and Inglis High Powers. Could "U" stand for "Übung", which in German would be for training or drill purposes?

 

[NukemFG4A]

This has assuredly been addressed, but various nations have stamped and marked certain pistols for training and instruction purposes. It was done to the GP.35 and Inglis High Powers. Could "U" stand for "Übung", which in German would be for training or drill purposes?

Ham, Darrin Weaver said something similar.

"Ben,


"U" in German usually indicates a practice or exercise piece of equipment, not to be used for live fire, etc. But, no, I have not encountered this before on a G/K43. Anything else unusual about the weapon?

Warm regards,

Darrin

W. Darrin Weaver
HPCo., LLC
PO Box 69,
Eddy, TX. 76524
www.historicalparts.com"

 

[RyanE]

This has assuredly been addressed, but various nations have stamped and marked certain pistols for training and instruction purposes. It was done to the GP.35 and Inglis High Powers. Could "U" stand for "Übung", which in German would be for training or drill purposes?

The 0 series cyq pistols at least are very, very late manufacture (some cvq and FN slides in the mix), so production for training seems unlikely to me.

Could be an explanation for the G43, maybe.

 

[Hambone]

Well, "training" or "exercise" denoted by a "U" on the components could indicate the pistol was used for factory testing, worker training, a test or exercise piece randomly pulled off the line to test for firing, mag insertion/drop, etc., and/or testing things like magazines themselves, contract jvd and e/88 production, whether they were properly manufactured and drop correctly, etc. You would want the pistol differentiated from others going through the line, obviously, for such purposes.

 

[mrfarb]

The pistols are not training pistols. Why would they need 7-8000 training pistols made in Feb 1945? These are assuredly for the volkssturm contract Spreewerk had.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ron from Minnesota]

I would agree with RyanE and Mike. There is evidence in the National Archives as documented in the Spreewerk book that the Spreewerk Grottau factory was to be a supplier of the Volkssturm. As Mike pointed out there are far too many pistols that carry the "U" stamp and most likely was a replacement acceptance for the standard E/88 stamp.

Ron

 

[mrfarb]

Exactly Ron - I think the fact that the U markings coincide with locations typical of Waffenamt inspections is also a clue to the meaning.

 

[pzjgr]

Plus, in "Ubungs", the U has an umlaut over it...and the Germans being, well, Germans, my guess is they would have the umlaut in the stamp....

 

[Ron from Minnesota]

Exactly Ron - I think the fact that the U markings coincide with locations typical of Waffenamt inspections is also a clue to the meaning.

Thanks Mike. I will say that in the course of Jan Balcar's research of the "U" marking concerning the Spreewerk Grottau factory he could not turn up any written evidence. The former factory workers seemed to be aware of it but more in a general sense rather than the specifics of it. Same thing would hold true with the Zero series pistols actually being a Volkssturm contract. But after I found the evidence at the National Archives listing Spreewerk Grottau as a supplier of pistols to the Volkssturm that kind of sealed the deal. Darrin Weaver viewed a lot of this same evidence in the course of his research for his fine book titled "Desperate Measures". After talking to the workers and using his German language skills Jan thought that the German word "Übernahme" which means acceptance in a replacement or takeover context was a logical conclusion. Although the "U" stamps do not have the umlauts it is doubtful that at this late point in the war that was a concern. The Spreewerk factory lies in current day Czech Republic and it is doubtful that they ever had that type of Ü stamp in their inventory.

So I will say that the original poster has quite an interesting rifle but in this case the "U" stamping as it applies to the late war Spreewerk pistols has a totally different meaning. I wish you guys well in researching the meaning and perhaps more examples will surface some day to help solve the mystery.

Ron

 

[Hambone]

Plus, in "Ubungs", the U has an umlaut over it...and the Germans being, well, Germans, my guess is they would have the umlaut in the stamp....

I don't know. The "U" marked in the stock rifles don't have it. Those two little dots make the die making much more difficult and weak. It's probably not this in any event.....