Going pretty far back now... M41 Dreyse

chrisftk

chrisftk

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Staff member
Hi all,

I picked this one up unexpectedly and checked off a big box on my list. This is an M41 Dreyse Needle Rifle made in 1857 at the Prussian Saarn Arsenal . The rifle is matching, save the cocking piece. The stock and metal are in great shape. There is a dark patina on the barrel that is even more evident when the bands are off.

The rifle obtained the Beck Conversion in 1873, receiving a bolt head, allowing for better chamber pressure due to a tighter seal. My other two needle rifles don't have this conversion so it was neat to see one.

Given the age, this has survived a lot and stayed in wonderful shape. It's pretty amazing to think this predates the Civil War. I took copious pictures because I know these aren't easy to find and are seldom given a detailed pictoral study.
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Beautiful rifle! Needle rifles are a favourite of mine. Thanks for showing such great pictures.

"88. L. II. 1. 46" should be the "Landwehr-Bataillon Weilburg, second company, rifle 46" which was the second Bataillon of the 2. Nassauisches Landwehr-Regiment no. 88.

With kind regards

Vincent
 
That is a hell of a rifle Chris and for the price you got it for on GunBroker I don't blame you one bit for hitting that buy now button as quick as you did. Damn good snag you got yourself.
 
I can think of no one that has done more to take up the mantle CB left behind, the scope and quality of your collection is pretty difficult to top! Though in doing so you have also taken up the greatest challenge an Imperialist collector can face, - the scope and diversity as well as the meager examples that can be acquired or even examined will make specializing nearly impossible... diversity (contrary to modern academia and "intellectual" dogma) is a terrible thing to manage, tame or direct, it has ended countless civilizations and is a serious impediment to a researcher whose time is limited!

What fascinated me about CB was his breadth of knowledgeable, if not expertise, he was familiar with almost every topic (that we discussed, some very divergent) and often could cite references or obscure facts. He almost always had something to say or could find some sort of reference to any subject (and he was as knowledgeable on the German Confederation era as the German Empire or the NS era...) and his collection and collecting reflected this.

Anyway, I have tried to view all these pictures (I have Fred Flintstone's internet), - and my "research" in the pre-1870 (or pre-1866 period) is very meager, as it naturally must be, so i can't say much about the M41. But what I can see it looks like a wonderful specimen!

*** I hate to suggest this but we need to start some sort of research project on these, I have 8 recorded over the last 20 years (ones I stumbled across as i do not search for them), but having so little to start with makes it easier to start... also one of the main things CB and I spoke about, near the end, was the desirability to start or inspire some research into these less well understood variations, - which was the reason he started up the 71 & 71/84 topics. The G88 trends I have been working on and planning on starting, but i will go through Storz and see what kind of project is suitable for such a rare variation, - these are the times CB would be especially helpful, he could whip up a variation outline and historical context in half an hour! I will have to plagiarize a couple books and take half a day...
 
Loewe said:
I can think of no one that has done more to take up the mantle CB left behind, the scope and quality of your collection is pretty difficult to top! ...
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Paul, this is about the biggest compliment a guy could get in this realm. Thank you for the kind words. CB left enormous shoes to fill, but I hope I'm honoring him in sticking to my "German Generalist" ways. (Illustrative example: The day UPS dropped this Dreyse off, my dealer called and said my G41(M) was ready to pick up-- two rifles almost 100 year age difference)

I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as, nor do I expect to ever be, but I think in our own way, each of us are keeping his legacy alive.

Needle Rifles have been a fascination for me, and are probably as far back as I'd like to go historically (unless I stumbled on a nice, clean Potsdam percussion musket to go with my M50 pistol)

I would certainly be willing to kick off a needle rifles thread. I have a few I can add and some auction snippets. The issue is just about all are fairly rare. There are also many variants-- I narrow it down to 5 "major" variants and several sub variants and an odd 1873 model borderguard rifle with more m71 features than Dreyse.

I've perused a great German language book on these (Die Zündnadelgewehr- actually CBs old copy, ironically), but was disappointed there was not a Storz level book on these in English. However, my prayers were answered and recently bought/read a great new English resource The Dreyse Military Needle Ignition System by Guy and Leonard AR West. They are two Brits that live and breathe these antique breech loaders. They hang out on Gunboards occasionally and shoot theirs often. (They also have about the only live fire Podewils live fire video I've ever seen on youtube)

The history behind these is fascinating and I enjoy seeing the early iterations of markings and styling that carried through to the Gew98.



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Chris, if you don't have it I recommend getting a copy of https://www.woodfieldpublishing.com/contents/en-uk/p438.html
The authors have multiple videos on Youtube and can be reached via email, they are the most knowledgeable collectors out there on needle guns that I am aware of. I share the same interest as you in these and I have a few myself (M60, M62, M65), still looking for that M41 to call it "complete", rifles only. You can get repro needles and bullets for producing your own cartridges on egun.de, correct slings on Ebay and Leonard and Guy reproduce brass muzzle covers and a few other small parts.
If you desire to go further back than the Dreyse, I have an extra Potsdam 1809/55 with rifled barrel and updated rear sight. Personally, my start point is the 1740 Potsdam (going to get one from the rifle shoppe one of these days), then skip over the early Potsdam variations and jump to 1809.

Cheers
 
Nulle100 said:
Chris, if you don't have it I recommend getting a copy of https://www.woodfieldpublishing.com/contents/en-uk/p438.html
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Great book for sure-- it took a while to arrive earlier this year but I read it in a night when it arrived. The ARWest guys are a rarity these days, not as much love for the antique breech loaders.

These are wonderful rifles for sure, I'd like an M62 and an M65 to round out the major models but not in a huge hurry.



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chrisftk said:
Great book for sure-- it took a while to arrive earlier this year but I read it in a night when it arrived. The ARWest guys are a rarity these days, not as much love for the antique breech loaders.

These are wonderful rifles for sure, I'd like an M62 and an M65 to round out the major models but not in a huge hurry.



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Have you checked out this site? http://www.therifleshoppe.com/catalog_pages/german_arms/german_arms.htm Great info there in the individual model descriptions.
I just received this book too: https://www.amazon.com/Potsdam-Musket-Col-Carl-Kruger/dp/1647020212
 
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