1874 ŒWG M71 IG

[chrisftk]

Hi All,

I scored this one off an auction a couple weeks ago. While you tend to see export model Steyr M71s with some frequency (lots of "P" block H marked, no imperial acceptance on the stock), you seldom run into legitimate German accepted examples in anything high grade. The export models seem to have also used german-accepted barrels (I once owned an Argentine National Army "EN" example, which had one) , which can lead to a false sense that they were German. The stock seems to be one of the tell-tale signs, as there does not seem to be cypher and acceptance on export stocks (Usually a script H)

According to Storz, Steyr began production on their contract in 1873 and actually delivered 190,000 rifles to Prussia in 1874 and 110,000 in 1875. As with all 71s (save Amberg), the attrition rate was quite high.

This particular example is quite interesting for a number of reasons:

1) There is an arsenal-style crown above the Steyr maker's mark on the barrel. Does anyone know why?
2) The rifle is all-matching and has an original sling (it may be WW1 vintage, but it is one of the few period slings I've seen on one)
3) The triggerguard was replaced during WW1 with the steel, painted version so that the brass could be recycled for casings

I did not disassemble this one, as the sling was quite fragile.

Any thoughts or additional insight would be appreciated.

 

[chrisftk]

Additional pics

 

[biggymu]

That’s a cool piece Chris! There certainly aren’t a ton of examples by this maker to compare it to. I haven’t seen any with the crown above. Might that be because it’s not an export model?

 

[MichaelWC]

Damn Chris. Another fantastic score for the collection.

 

[chrisftk]

That’s a cool piece Chris! There certainly aren’t a ton of examples by this maker to compare it to. I haven’t seen any with the crown above. Might that be because it’s not an export model?

Thanks Rick, I thought that may be the case too, but the German accepted one in Storz didn't have the crown. I'm going to look and see if any others are out there to compare.

Damn Chris. Another fantastic score for the collection.

Thanks Mike!

 

[PrayingMantis]

Excellent example, Chris! That crown is very interesting, I’ll keep an eye for others marked with one. Really a very cool detail, and goes against what I thought I knew about the “crown” arsenals.

 

[biggymu]

However did you get the O and E to meld together in the title of this thread?

 

[PrayingMantis]

However did you get the O and E to meld together in the title of this thread?

On most phones, if you hold O while typing Œ will come up as an option. On computers it can vary, if theres not a keyboard shortcut for you either use MS Word or copy from the internet. But if you want to copy and paste here it is: Œ œ

 

[chrisftk]

Excellent example, Chris! That crown is very interesting, I’ll keep an eye for others marked with one. Really a very cool detail, and goes against what I thought I knew about the “crown” arsenals.

Thanks Cyrus-- I agree on the crown. I see nothing on it in Storz, nor do i recall seeing another come up for sale.

One thought i had was that it was perhaps assembled at a crown arsenal (similar to the 500 or so carbines built using cut-down Amberg barrels and surplus Steyr parts), but the Steyr maker's mark is actually shifted down slightly from the center of the barrel, as if it was intentionally moved to accommodate the crown stamp. My Steyr carbine and Jager are both centered. (see below for a comparison of this rifle and one of my carbines)



It could be a feature on early rifles in the Prussian contract maybe? THis being early "e" block would be about 20-25% through the 1874 production. Just a thought.

 

[Loewe]

Chris, I added this to the study!

 

[chrisftk]

Chris, I added this to the study!

Thanks Paul! To your recollection, have you seen any other Steyr 71s with the Crown over the maker's mark?

 

[Loewe]

I will check

 

[Loewe]

1874 OWG 5867 E (83.R.9.173) (HH auction from Germany)

I added the (CROWN) to the thread to reflect this characteristic, though only this one and 511/E possess it (among those I have recorded); there is something about Steyr production that is misunderstood, or rather unclear (I suspect what we have seen doesn't reflect actual production)

 

[chrisftk]

1874 OWG 5867 E (83.R.9.173) (HH auction from Germany)

I added the (CROWN) to the thread to reflect this characteristic, though only this one and 511/E possess it (among those I have recorded); there is something about Steyr production that is misunderstood, or rather unclear (I suspect what we have seen doesn't reflect actual production)

Paul, thanks for that-- I agree on Steyr 71s being rather odd. I beleive most surviving examples are export models, with relatively few having unit marks or German stock acceptance. It appears that regardless of end user the barreled actions have accepted b/r. I know we had been tracking the script "H" rifles at one point. I beleive that this was in general terms a mark to differentiate export examples, though "H" parts also show up occasionally on German contract ones. I owned an Argentine National Army (rebels) EN example at one point that that no side acceptance on the stock, but H markings. I'm not sure we'll ever fully crack the code, but Steyr did some similar sideline production on 88s (the 1894 ones in particular). Perhaps part of their contract included the ability to produce a certain amount for export.

Either way , thank you for sharing that additional Crown example. Maybe the crown was an early attempt to differentiate German from sideline production?

Maybe this is a case similar to Mauser where parts from other lines show up.

 

[Loewe]

Steyr was a serious competitor as the supreme commercial arms maker prior to the war, as i recall it had agreement with the Loewe group (Loewe-DWM & WMO) in dealing the international commercial contracts. (Loewe had considerable support from the government, the Kaiser even toured its "new" state of the art premier factory and offered state support for its international activities, - so much for German/conservative anti-Semitism, - anti-Semitism existed in all Occidental societies, the further east you go the worse it was, though France and England were as bad as Germany at times, especially France, - oddly the least anti-Semitic period in England was under Cromwell, though his butchery in Ireland negated any credit he deserved... though he was hardly worse than Queen Elizabeth's genocide in Ireland)

 

[chrisftk]

Steyr was a serious competitor as the supreme commercial arms maker prior to the war, as i recall it had agreement with the Loewe group (Loewe-DWM & WMO) in dealing the international commercial contracts. (Loewe had considerable support from the government, the Kaiser even toured its "new" state of the art premier factory and offered state support for its international activities, - so much for German/conservative anti-Semitism, - anti-Semitism existed in all Occidental societies, the further east you go the worse it was, though France and England were as bad as Germany at times, especially France, - oddly the least anti-Semitic period in England was under Cromwell, though his butchery in Ireland negated any credit he deserved... though he was hardly worse than Queen Elizabeth's genocide in Ireland)

That would make sense, especially given Steyrs role later in 88 production. Finding excess capacity while the arsenals ramped up would be much more palatable from Austria given the fact that there was disappointment with British on the NAA M71 contract.

To your point, I think in this period Russia was pretty awful on the anti-Semitism front in this pre-WWI period. The "Protocols" were fabricated around 1900, if I recall.