pawnshop 1916 Danzig GEW 98 help

[ProfessrH]

Hello. Brand new here, and hoping y'all can help.

(Thanks, Paul, for referring me to this forum).

I bought this GEW 98 1916 Danzig at a pawnshop (the price was right).

By the way, if you check out the thread I started over at Surplusrifle Forum, please understand that I do know it looks kinda goofy in that 1912 short rifle stock , but now at least I can sling it, shoot it, take it out in the swamp and hunt wild hogs with it. And if you need a 1912 short rifle stock, Sportsman's Guide has them pretty affordably priced. . . .

Meanwhile, my new-to-me rifle appears to be all matching, or sorta matching, but I'm a noob here, and hope you all will look at the pictures and offer your assessments.

There are a lot of pictures; I hope that won't be a problem.

What do you think, folks? What do I have here?

Thanks in advance for your help!

ProfessrH

 

[ProfessrH]

By the way, here's the rifle in the original, butchered stock:

 

[PrayingMantis]

looks like a decent one, except for the stock of course. Could you do an image looking straight down on the top of the receiver?

If you're looking for a proper Gew stock I may have something coming in next week.

 

[Loewe]

Welcome! Glad you decided to post the rifle here!

As you can see by the suffix, Danzig made enormous numbers of Gew.98's 1915-1917, top manufacturer during the war easily. That said, finding original-matching wartime rifles are not easy. When I trended Danzig, I was astonished to find so few from 1915-1916 were anywhere near original-matching. Less than 5% certainly. Danzig/1917 is quite different, but still quite low compared to what I expected starting out. You expect such a situation with the Suhl makers, low production = low surviving numbers in quality condition, however the trends work shows that surviving "original-matching" is relatively equal even with the great disparity of rifles made. (of course documented rifles, barreled receivers, are through the roof with Danzig compared to most of the other makers, but original rifles are not any easier to find.)

This rifle is a "gg" block, Danzig is the only maker of the Gew.98 known to have used both the "i" and "j" block (most German firms, in both wars, used "i" but not "j"), and Danzig went to the "qq" blocks in 1916. That is a lot of rifles!

As you can see you have some matching components, the trigger guard is typical of Danzig, the C/RC in the middle was typical of them, they had a lot of problems, took short cuts, you see a lot of C/RC marks on their production,all the way until 1918. Your barrel was made of Bismarckhütte steel, during the war this was the main steel supplier apparently, most 1915-1918 Danzig's have BI barrel blanks.

In the Summer/2012 MRJ I revisited the Danzig Arsenal, wrote an extensive article on the arsenal, including its known history and covered its production of the Gew.98 and Kar98a is great detail. We hope to start shipping issues to subscribers next week, in batches.

Professor, if you have a specific question post it here and I will try and answer it.

 

[ProfessrH]

Could you do an image looking straight down on the top of the receiver?

PrayingMantis:

Here's a straight-down view of the action.

Thanks for your interest.

ProfessrH

 

[ProfessrH]

Professor, if you have a specific question post it here and I will try and answer it.

Thanks, SimsonSuhl. Two questions: One: What's a good place to catch up on all the stamps and marks used (I'm thinking in particular of the bottom of the receiver)? Two: What do you make of the bolt?

I appreciate your help.

ProfessrH

 

[Loewe]

Professor,

The markings on the bottom receiver flat are in-house assembly markings, no one knows what they represent. Probably some inspectors signing off on some tolerances or measurements. Danzig was as busy as anyone applying these marks, as was Warsawa and Radom after WWI. York describes the markings, in his VIS book, as in-house sub-assembler markings.
One can assume that after WWI, many of the workers at Danzig were enticed to work for the Poles, as even though the pilfered lands Poland acquired from Germany (parts of eastern and western Prussia, Pomerania, Pomoze, Poznania, parts of Silesia, often with no plebiscite or less than honest ones), were the most valuable, industrialized areas at the time for the Poles, they were the least industrialized in Germany pre-1918. Germany also pressed the Entente and Poles to accomodate efforts to keep ethnic Germans in these areas (not that it worked very well), even in Danzig, which didn't go to Poland completely, the Germans didn't want more refugees fleeing from the east, who often created great burdens on the state, further the less ethnic Germans stayed in these areas, the less valid would be Germany's claims to getting these areas back. Very likely, as Danzig was probably the most industrialized city lost in the east, and arms production was ended both in Germany and Danzig, these men probably found employment in Poland, - they certainly would have been needed and accommodated, whether they were ethnic Germans or not.

The bolt is hard to tell, it isn't original imo, scrubbed at least, but hard to tell the origin of the bolt. Danzig used a unique fireproof and acceptance, as all the arsenals did, but the eagle is too close to tell in this case, and both Spandau and Danzig used similar acceptance in this range. Danzig often used C/O when Spandau used C/Q in mid-1916 ranges, and I do not have a Danzig recorded close enough to even guess what Danzig bolts were using in 1916 gg block rifles (I did check Spandau trends for 1916 and they did use C/Q on bolts). Anyway, I would keep the bolt as it is about as close as one can guess at this point, - I have extensive trends work done on Danzig, right receiver markings, fireproof trends, serial ranges, barrel coding but too few original rifles are documented to do much component acceptance trends work. I have some good data on 1917 Danzig, stocks especially, but before 1917, most of the trends work is on barreled receivers, some stocks and trigger guard component acceptance, as these parts are the most often encountered "original" to the rifle.

Hope this helps.

 

[ProfessrH]

Professor,
Anyway, I would keep the bolt as it is about as close as one can guess at this point, -

That's good to hear. My gunsmith was impressed with how tight the headspace was: it closed on the Go-gauge and didn't close on the No-Go. Is that common? The gunsmith thought someone might have done some work on it. . . .

Thanks.

ProfessrH

 

[Loewe]

I have never encountered a German Modell98 rifle that failed a field gage, even worn rifles usually do well if not too abused.

Of course, I never really bought low end junkers either, except to part out.

That's good to hear. My gunsmith was impressed with how tight the headspace was: it closed on the Go-gauge and didn't close on the No-Go. Is that common? The gunsmith thought someone might have done some work on it. . . .

Thanks.

ProfessrH

 

[ProfessrH]

Of course, I never really bought low end junkers either, except to part out.

I've never bought a rifle I didn't think had potential as a shooter.

To be a shooter, this one needed/will need a functional stock, a sling, a replacement firing pin (the one with it is welded), and a new follower spring (the one with it is old and worn out enough to interfere with smooth feeding of ammo).

To be a fully realized collectible, this one will need . . . well, you guys tell me.

SimsonSuhl, do you think what I have here is actually a low end junker? Or does it have potential beyond what I saw in it when I rescued it from that West Alabama pawnshop?

Thanks, all, for your help, and for your patience with my steep learning curve!

ProfessrH

 

[Loewe]

No, I wasn't comparing your rifle to another. I was just referring to the tendency of German rifles, with German components, not failing field gage and being reasonably safe to shoot quality ammunition. In my experience I have not encountered a German military rifle that was unsafe to shoot, even the well used Turk Gew.98's, the Rumanian imports, and Albanian imports were all safe to shoot, and these rifles were often well used and slightly abused.

To be collectable, well you have the essentials, it isn't refinished, it isn't cut down (barrel), it has some original parts, and other parts that are proper enough. You are miles ahead of the typical "rc" collector already, who will never have a collectable "German" rifle imo... as you can't un-refinish a rifle.
You will need some patience and about $300 to make this rifle proper, nothing more. You need a stock, which can run $300 if you want a really nice one, but $150-200 is doable, bands, perhaps a cleaning rod. Problem is finding someone selling a proper stock, which you will need a walnut stock with grips, no take down in this range, though take downs do start a few blocks after this and could be ok. For whatever reason, beech stocks are not very common on Danzig/1916 production, I would stick with walnut if possible, though a beech stock would probably be easier to find.

- Or you could sell it on Gun Broker and let someone else worry about restoring it! Restorations are for those with high resolve and thick wallets. There isn't much money in doing them...

... To be a fully realized collectible, this one will need . . . well, you guys tell me.

SimsonSuhl, do you think what I have here is actually a low end junker? Or does it have potential beyond what I saw in it when I rescued it from that West Alabama pawnshop?

 

[ProfessrH]

To be collectable, well you have the essentials, it isn't refinished, it isn't cut down (barrel), it has some original parts, and other parts that are proper enough. You are miles ahead of the typical "rc" collector already, who will never have a collectable "German" rifle imo... as you can't un-refinish a rifle.

- Or you could sell it on Gun Broker and let someone else worry about restoring it! Restorations are for those with high resolve and thick wallets. There isn't much money in doing them...

Again, great information and great news. I will give some thought to selling it, with the original stock and metal. Or I may leave it in the safe for a while.

I'm grateful for your help with this; I clearly got more than I knew I was getting in that pawnshop.

 

[ProfessrH]

Took some new pictures of the bolt. Do these suggest that the bolt body is original to the rifle (the number on the knob matches the action, apparently). Do they actually shed any new light on the subject? I appreciate your help!

 

[Loewe]

Yes, this is a period re-number of the bolt. It is a keeper for sure and helps value significantly.

Not manufacturer original but far better than any other alternative. Also good is I bet that bolt is out of a Danzig rifle originally.

 

[ProfessrH]

Thanks, SimsonSuhl. That's great news.

Also got better pictures of the rear barrel band:

 

[Turbo Archie]

There are a lot of pictures; I hope that won't be a problem.

Can a porn site have too many pictures??



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