KS98 - WOODEN HANDLED TRIALS MODEL OF 1912

markwadeks98

markwadeks98

Active member
This is one of the original 250 wooden handles trial bayonets created for the colonies by erfurt in 1912 , where it was found that the leather handles didnt survive the african climate (especially in DOA) , all the 1912 trial bayonets have been found in south african hinting at them being issued to dswa troops , i have used a photo from Ian Jacksons excellent book on the bayonet to show the difference to the leather handled versions .. note the 3 small holes in the handle for rivets and the 2 holes for screws that appear on the trial bayonets, uncommon to find and almost always not unit marked , regarded as R1 (exceptionally rare).
 

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Nice bayonet personally i would doubt the piece had from beginn the wood grips, note the screw inspectors are different as here. Same as the end proof was done by switch to V inspector. The grips have not any assembly numbers as visible. There exist a KS2174 in Voronov book Erfurt W12 with normal grips.
The wood grips were already proofed in 1909 by KS98 test for cavalry as visible on the trial piece here in forum.
 
AndyB said:
Nice bayonet personally i would doubt the piece had from beginn the wood grips, note the screw inspectors are different as here. Same as the end proof was done by switch to V inspector. The grips have not any assembly numbers as visible. There exist a KS2174 in Voronov book Erfurt W12 with normal grips.
The wood grips were already proofed in 1909 by KS98 test for cavalry as visible on the trial piece here in forum.
Click to expand...
 
hi , note the grey pic of the handles removed from the bayonet is from a book , not from my actual bayonet , i used the pic to highlight the 5 holes that exist on the trials bayonets
 
note that in 1912, erfurt made leather handles , and rubber handles and wood handle bayonets , this was the first year where all three types were made ..
 
You should bring better pictures on hook of scabbard and on screw heads, but when i see different inspector stamp on screw, blade and pommel, so i would compare it to other pieces certainly.
T inspector was switched when i remember corectly into V, so when on screws are different proofs, the screws are then from different period.
 
debate is always appreciated , for leather gripped 1912s we expect to see C on the blade , CC or CL on the handle , and C or L on the screws , the wooden gripped trials should have C on the blade , VV or MV on the handle , and S or C or V on the screws
 
markwadeks98 said:
debate is always appreciated , for leather gripped 1912s we expect to see C on the blade , CC or CL on the handle , and C or L on the screws , the wooden gripped trials should have C on the blade , VV or MV on the handle , and S or C or V on the screws
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the lettering on 1912 bayonets
 

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this is VV on the pommel ( i think , german frakturs are hard for my eyes to read)
 

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Unfortunally i dont believe that is letter C. Is most real letter T. Secondly the grip screws are not typical by other stamps as T or V. I believe there are mixed two used german fraktur alphabets with different shape of letters in the table . Secondly the S proof could be done by repair from leather grips to wood. As the timeframe was different as the bayonet was fully completed and accepted. In Roy Williams book is reported a KS5278 piece W12 Erfurt , bakelit grips marked with T on blade, this is a older proof, same as 2x V proof on pommel and S proof on crosspiece, question for me remains when was changed to V proof, should be compared by other bayonets made by Erfurt as S98/05 to sample. Normally by one time production should be all parts proofed with same inspector. by 3 various inspector there should be asked for timeframe and end of production. Same as from Rudiger text is clear that Erfurt in majority used a different maker rohlings and made partly montage of bayonets.
In the table from Erfurt proofing personally i dont saw a X proof on Erfurt pieces in 1913. Problem by similar tables is how the bayonet was produced, used and repaired in timeframe.
When i look at Williams book pg.385 there is W14 S on blade KS98 used on Erfurt, so the explanation of similar marking could be bayonet rohling was made in 1912 by Erfurt dated on blade with T lettr , fullended by V twice stamp later on pommel of unknown date and the grips were reproofed with crossguard in 1914 with letter S.
 
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The T appears on most erfurts , but isn't a fraktur , are there any pics of the T you refer to ?
 

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Other point in the fraktur letter is the second letter C is in reality letter E. So there should be in upper row as follows B T E C D J ..
 
AndyB said:
Other point in the fraktur letter is the second letter C is in reality letter E. So there should be in upper row as follows B T E C D J ..
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Ian Jackson's book makes no reference to any erfurt using a fraktur E , do you perhaps have any pics of the E Versus a C ?
 
The difference between the E and C is the small part in middle piece moving to right.
 
T in Erfurt is visible on page 383 Williams marked piece W11 Erfurt marked.pg 388 on Erfurt W12 marked KS5278
 
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