Dual Date Kar98a, WW1-WW2 service with HzA.

[artyldr01]

Hello,

I found a mostly matching 1916 Erfurt dual date Kar 98, with original sling but the main issue is someone basically stripped the forend and some of the upper band. Normally I'd not have hesitated but the stripped part makes me unsure.

How hard would it be to "restore" that portion?

 

[chrisftk]

I think that you could likely fix the issue-- or at least get it close to looking right-- The price is a "no-brainer" for matching bolt and stock. This is a 1920's Cassel rebuild based on the "Cl" side and wrist cartouches. (They renamed the city to Kassel in 1926)

Rust bluing the band wouldnt be hard-- I can help you with technique. The stock forend will need a few coats of oil (I recommend pure tung oil for this case rubbing in, wiping excess and letting it dry a week between coats Apply until it looks right. )

 

[artyldr01]

Thank you very much. I didn't know about the "CI." Thank you for the offer of assistance, I'll definitely take you up on it.

I just realized each stock disk has different markings:

3./K.D.9.

Cancelled 12 / J.R. (Unknown)

Thanks again

 

[artyldr01]

I forgot it also has a pretty big chunk out of the stock, but either way, I think I'll be at the door when they open.

 

[artyldr01]

12 Jaeger Regiment, Italian Front WW1
3 Kavalry Division, Weimar Era.

The stock is remarked it appears so no guarantee the 12/J.R. was for this rifle or a previous one, but a pretty safe bet the 3/K.D. is.

 

[artyldr01]

I finally took photos in better light and found the HZA rebuild mark as well.

It also has an original sling. Despite the issues with the forend and upper band, I'd say it was WELL worth what I paid.

 

[Cyrano4747]

Yeah, that's a heck of a find even with the damage.

 

[JimF]

Does your rifle have the follower modified to hold the bolt to the rear on an empty magazine?
Mine does . . . .
As originally manufactured, I don’t believe they had the “bolt hold-open” type of follower.
As my Kar 98 has the 1920 property mark . . . . .and was later given to the Bavarian Police . . . .I cannot determine WHO modified the follower.

 

[artyldr01]

Mine does have the bolt hold open feature.

 

[chrisftk]

I finally took photos in better light and found the AZ rebuild mark as well.

It's actually an HzA mark. Army depot mark essentially.

 

[artyldr01]

Thank you, I knew there was more too it.

 

[RyanE]

Looks like HZaJt3 - Ingolstadt rework, probably sometime after 1941 or so. Check for barrel markings if you take it apart.

 

[artyldr01]

Thank you, I was struggling to read it. I dont know if I dare try to remove the action, the screws are pretty buggered up.

 

[Loewe]

OP, Your are in the right forum for this rifle variation, it is a fine example of an interwar era rifle that saw service in the national socialist era. The 1920 is a property marking, denoting it government property during the efforts to reclaim military rifles in civilian hands (not an effort for disarming the German people as some suggest), the 1920 purpose is singly to prevent rewards (recurring thefts) issued for newly stolen rifles, the task was designed to appease the Entente leaders during the Spa conference, - paramilitary organizations were not "expected" to participate, though some snitches were encouraged. The main goal was to disarm the numerous premilitary organizations, which were quite a problem for the government.

This rifle served during the interwar period, I too would take care in disassembling the rifle, it is fairly rare in being period original, though like "condition" G98'a are rarer than Weimar era 98a in such condition. It is rare for a interwar 98a to have a re-barrel, the Germans ended 98a barrel production early, though some police re-barrels were done, quite common actually. I would have to review the unit marking (Bryans & Gortz) to determine service, but E/Cl suggest Reichsheer and others have offered the probabilities (I am sure they have identified the right unit, my library is upstairs)

The stock damage is superficial, I wouldn't worry about it, it will have little impact on value as long as it is "honest", meaning it isn't improved or poorly repaired.

Anyway, I hope you keep this thread whole, no need to seek alteration, or moving to another forum, though no harm seeking other opinions at another forum.

 

[chrisftk]

The stock damage is superficial, I wouldn't worry about it, it will have little impact on value as long as it is "honest", meaning it isn't improved or poorly repaired.

I'm wondering exactly what happened. It looks very much like the wood was stripped and the band aggressively cleaned. The hook is fine though, so very odd. Maybe an aborted bubba attempt..I can think of no natural reason it would be this way.

 

[artyldr01]

Agreed. It just seems so...odd...that I wondered if there is any reason it may have occured during it's "era" rather than by "bubba." I can't think of a reason though.

 

[chrisftk]

Agreed. It just seems so...odd...that I wondered if there is any reason it may have occured during it's "era" rather than by "bubba." I can't think of a reason though.

Is it duffle cut behind the rear band?

 

[artyldr01]

I'll have to take a closer look, I don't THINK so, but I could be wrong. I dont plan to remove the band as it has that dowel instead of a screw, but I'll see if I can determine without removing it.

 

[Turbo Archie]

The band was sanded in line with the stock.
I will say the picture showing the HzA mark shows the stock numbers dark black yet the HzA is light as if the stock was sanded before the HzA.....

 

[artyldr01]

Thanks for thr observation. As a newbie here, I'm not sure what that indicates?