Steyr M/12 umg. - 1935 Gendarmerie contract

[HerrWolfsberg]

Another new entry in my collection - a "Steyr-Pistole M/12 umg." or a Steyr M.12 converted to 9 mm Luger and used by the German police. This one however is one of the 1000 pistols made in 1935 for the Austrian Gendarmerie. The pistols from this contract can be easily identified by the round Steyr logo after the serial number. They were the very last Steyr M.12 pistols made.

The pistol has been converted to 9 mm Luger sometime between 1940 and 1945 and carries the prewar or postwar (there are conflicting opinions on that) stamps of the Gendarmerie command of Lower Austria (LGK NÖ).

 

[AndyB]

Interestingly this has not the Steyr 1919 on slide stamping, the serialing is too independent from serial number even Gendarmery contract on strap is LGK No.1197. Is there any commerzial fireproof on top of slide?

 

[gunnertwo]

That's a new one for me, very rare example. Went to the Motz book for info. Here's his chart on the last production serial list:

 

[AndyB]

It looks that some refurbishments were there too , the Steyr logo behind the serials 1712 had Wn-19 proof on frame which was done only on realised proofed production. Is clear the inventory stamp of LGK No was independent from serial number, as 1076 Steyr has a 1719 inv.number and here presented piece 1210 Steyr has a 1197 inv.number of LGK No. Only exception is the 1442 Steyr. not to mentioning older Steyr 1919 which was serialed in old suffix letter strings.
Strange is for me too the designation of Neufertigungen for 1265+ and 1469+ when the pistols were proofed Wn eagle 15 and 18, marked Steyr 1915 and 1918 this could be only refurbishments on older production.

 

[HerrWolfsberg]

There is a theory that the small post-1919 production was marked 1919 to make the pistols appear as older pieces. It is entirely possible that the first pieces of the Gendarmerie contract were either assembled of these parts or that the relaxation of the limitations led to the marking being dropped later in the production.

The pistols marked with a + were speculated by Mötz & Schuy to be pieces from the post-1919 production marked like this to make them appear as a pre-1919 production. There are however pieces from all the war years in existence with the + suffix, which lends credibility to the claim that these are simply pistols made of parts that did not pass the regular quality control, but were deemed okay to use under the wartime conditions.

 

[AndyB]

Personally i dont believe the Steyr produced pistols post 1919 as there was a ally comission there, the rifle M95 production was moved to Wien. But is possible as many of them were proofed with commerzial nitro proof, some of them ended in hidden depots and some on market. I assume they made large bunch of reserve parts, which could be later reused. Question is too that in 1935 existed a production line from war or by 1000 pcs it was only left over parts assembling.
I asked the confirmation of commerzial proof on the 1210 piece in first thread. As there dont looks fireproofed prior change to 08 caliber. The + marked pieces when correct what wrote Moetz so in reality approved pieces when arsenal Wn austrian eagle 15 proofed on trigger guard. When removed from acceptance this would be striked out or never stamped, so + pieces are mostly refurbishment with new serials added or left over parts reused for assembly.

 

[HerrWolfsberg]

Personally i dont believe the Steyr produced pistols post 1919 as there was a ally comission there, the rifle M95 production was moved to Wien. But is possible as many of them were proofed with commerzial nitro proof, some of them ended in hidden depots and some on market. I assume they made large bunch of reserve parts, which could be later reused. Question is too that in 1935 existed a production line from war or by 1000 pcs it was only left over parts assembling.
I asked the confirmation of commerzial proof on the 1210 piece in first thread. As there dont looks fireproofed prior change to 08 caliber. The + marked pieces when correct what wrote Moetz so in reality approved pieces when arsenal Wn austrian eagle 15 proofed on trigger guard. When removed from acceptance this would be striked out or never stamped, so + pieces are mostly refurbishment with new serials added or left over parts reused for assembly.

I'll check the gun for the nitro proof when I get to it this evening. However, Steyr was still equipped for production of the Steyr M.12 pistols in the 1930's. They were offering them even for export customers, but the production must have been very small and probably only for domestic customers. There are also pieces with a hand stamped serial number that are speculated to be a post-WW1 production made of leftover or spare parts, or maybe assembled from parts obtained from damaged guns. These however must have been made by the army workshops, not by Steyr. They have wartime dated slides but 1920's acceptance stamps.

The + suffix guns were supposed to have been assembled at Steyr from parts that did not pass the inspection but were deemed to be safe for use afterwards. As such, the guns were accepted, but the + suffix identified them as substandard. That sounds plausible to me given that they otherwise show all the usual signs of Steyr factory production.

 

[Absolut]

Very nice pistol with the Steyr logo! It is supposed that the serials for those started at 1000, for all of them to have a four digit serial number. I have two of them, both are 08 reworks. There btw is an official Police order for 1000 Steyr pistols 9mm Pattern 12 dating 24th August 1935, so most likely that this is the answer to the history of the Steyr Logo M.1912 pistols.

The + series are IMHO as you have said out of spec parts, that all got used up in 1918, and marked with a + to specifically mark them not being regular production (and if there are malfunctions with the pistols to avoid the thinking there would be a serial problem). Recently I saw one of these the first time reworked to 08 too. I have discussed this with Joschi Schuy and after having showed him the various slide dates for all those having the + in combination with all of them having the Wn18 acceptance (actually I think the one in his chart said to be Wn15 was misread) there is a strong lead towards this.

Is clear the inventory stamp of LGK No was independent from serial number, as 1076 Steyr has a 1719 inv.number and here presented piece 1210 Steyr has a 1197 inv.number of LGK No. Only exception is the 1442 Steyr. not to mentioning older Steyr 1919 which was serialed in old suffix letter strings.

Schuy mentions in one of his books that a handful are known. Here you go for another one with matching swivel, just listed on eGun (not my auction): https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19979892

 

[HerrWolfsberg]

Do yours have a Steyr + date on the slide, or are they blank like mine? Regarding the 1935 contract, I see this as an established and confirmed explanation for these pistols. Especially since I've never seen any with a number in the 2XXX range.

Regarding the number stamped swivels, if they were all matching the serial number of the gun originally, what would have been the reason for them to get mismatched later on? Since I've only seen a handful of them being offered or presented in books.

 

[AndyB]

The link that You sent from Egun is clearly a postwar stamping, heavy refurbish, reblued and visible the strap material was removed partly and then striked new LGK Ober Oesterreich on, the serial is easily repeated from the serial number of pistol, but in major cases LGK used this place for adding the inventory number as visible on other reported pistols. There exist plenty of marked with different numbers on main part of pistol as on ring of handle, when You made Yourself the dbase You will see it. It should be in Schuyi listed. Even here on 1210 Steyr pistol, is clear the 1197 serial on ring was not restamped but is period there.
The Wn eagle 15 is confirmed when there was Steyr 1915 as logo on slide even present in table of Moetz/Schuyi book, anyway when it was Steyr 1918 so then the acceptance was Wn eagle 18. There is too other piece in table 1712/Steyr logo suffix with frame marked W-n-19 which means the frame was inspected in 1919, so the slide should have Steyr 1919, when not so is possible the slide was fraised on surface out by refurbishmet to 08 caliber or earlier.