Looking for advice on value.
- Thread starter Cowboyden
- Start date
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
WW2 subs didn’t have AC, were humid & salty environments. so preventive measures would have been taken. As sub crews didn’t break hand arms out very often, I’d expect to find them clean when stored. Mine are clean when I put them away! (though a lot easier on land & in peacetime)
Mauserguy85
Well-known member
One thing is always certain in this hobby. “Buy the rifle, not the story.”
Having said that, as the bolt cutout pics and general pics show… it’s a matching rifle with a fairly desirable code, but the stock has been sanded to kingdom come. Thankfully the stock stamps were most likely stamped deep from the factory so they are “still visible”. This amount of stock refinishing really hurts the rifle imo.
Any accompanying “story” is null and void. To put it in the simplest terms, the rifle was worked on sometime during the post war period. This could be by the individual who brought it back, or whoever. You can’t know for sure unless somebody who owned the rifle before you, admits it. That fact of being refinished immediately sows doubt on any corresponding story to experienced k98k collectors. Documentation like capture papers and period photos showing that exact rifle (very hard to prove it’s that exact rifle in 1940’s pictures). One thing is for certain, it originally did not leave the Mauser Oberndorf factory looking like it does now. That’s 100%. No German soldier, from a u-boat or from the eastern front near Stalingrad would have sanded the stock in this manner and reversed the recoil lug. Not to mention, an improper tool was used to unscrew the recoil lug and the damage is easily visible, as is the damage to the capture screws by using an improper flathead screwdriver.
When it comes to the capture box, many have been even faked over the years. I mean it’s not really hard especially since originals are throughly documented. A simple test would be to measure the inner length of the box. Most of the time, the provided shipping boxes were too short to hold a k98k in its assembled form. So the most common option was to “duffle cut” the front end of the stock so it can fit. Another was to disassemble the rifle for shipping. Believe it or not, we have experts here that can verify that shipping box. I’m not one of them…
Having said all that, it still has value even with its issues. I’m assuming the bore is mint. You have to figure that RC’s sell for $800-$1000 now fairly regularly and all-matching unmolested examples at the $3000+ mark. On an auction site like gunbroker with a decent description, I would expect this to go for $1400-$1800. Some people will buy the pimp shine stock look because they think it’s correct and really pretty. As for shooting, I would double check the action screws for proper torque and shoot away. If it were mine, I would be trying to figure out how to make the stock look more presentable and closer in look to original. With some searching old threads, you may find some good info on how to so. It’s possible you may have some luck darkening it up a little so it’s not blinding your eyes on a sunny day….
Hope this helps.
Edit: photo on the left from RyanE’s byf42 vs yours. Notice the sharpness of the cutout, the color, the texture, the grain, and the roughness…
Having said that, as the bolt cutout pics and general pics show… it’s a matching rifle with a fairly desirable code, but the stock has been sanded to kingdom come. Thankfully the stock stamps were most likely stamped deep from the factory so they are “still visible”. This amount of stock refinishing really hurts the rifle imo.
Any accompanying “story” is null and void. To put it in the simplest terms, the rifle was worked on sometime during the post war period. This could be by the individual who brought it back, or whoever. You can’t know for sure unless somebody who owned the rifle before you, admits it. That fact of being refinished immediately sows doubt on any corresponding story to experienced k98k collectors. Documentation like capture papers and period photos showing that exact rifle (very hard to prove it’s that exact rifle in 1940’s pictures). One thing is for certain, it originally did not leave the Mauser Oberndorf factory looking like it does now. That’s 100%. No German soldier, from a u-boat or from the eastern front near Stalingrad would have sanded the stock in this manner and reversed the recoil lug. Not to mention, an improper tool was used to unscrew the recoil lug and the damage is easily visible, as is the damage to the capture screws by using an improper flathead screwdriver.
When it comes to the capture box, many have been even faked over the years. I mean it’s not really hard especially since originals are throughly documented. A simple test would be to measure the inner length of the box. Most of the time, the provided shipping boxes were too short to hold a k98k in its assembled form. So the most common option was to “duffle cut” the front end of the stock so it can fit. Another was to disassemble the rifle for shipping. Believe it or not, we have experts here that can verify that shipping box. I’m not one of them…
Having said all that, it still has value even with its issues. I’m assuming the bore is mint. You have to figure that RC’s sell for $800-$1000 now fairly regularly and all-matching unmolested examples at the $3000+ mark. On an auction site like gunbroker with a decent description, I would expect this to go for $1400-$1800. Some people will buy the pimp shine stock look because they think it’s correct and really pretty. As for shooting, I would double check the action screws for proper torque and shoot away. If it were mine, I would be trying to figure out how to make the stock look more presentable and closer in look to original. With some searching old threads, you may find some good info on how to so. It’s possible you may have some luck darkening it up a little so it’s not blinding your eyes on a sunny day….
Hope this helps.
Edit: photo on the left from RyanE’s byf42 vs yours. Notice the sharpness of the cutout, the color, the texture, the grain, and the roughness…
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Muncher 1953
Senior Member
IMO, yes that’s relevant. My thought was that since we know Ballistol was the issued “gun oil” for WW2 German armed forces AND that it emulsifies moisture, that it’s ‘possible’ the ‘white lubricant’ was in fact Ballistol w/some moisture in it from the sub.
But that wouldn’t be uniformly whitish, the color would vary. Then I’d expect to see some loss/alteration of the bluing from corrosion, & I don’t see that in the photos provided. All of the metal shows very little wear, making me wonder if the metal might not have been reblued when the stock was refinished. I’m NOT saying “I think it was reblued” just that it’s a possibility. What’s considered “right & proper” treatment of a collectible firearm (by serious collectors) is quite different today than in the 1st 50 years after the war ended. Without the rifle in hand, looked at in varying light conditions, & even smelling it (some say they can smell cold bluing) I wouldn’t push that opinion.
The contrast between the color/condition of the sling & the rest of the rifle gives me pause. The sling may not be ‘the original’ if it were, I’d expect it to look more like the rest of the rifle. (dry & brittle perhaps, but lighter in color) I have a couple of 1968 marked Austrian Stg 58 slings, look brand new almost.
The address on the box is real & “high rent district” today, zillow sez $1 mil + ! (a beach property, if not ‘beach front’, 2 family)
I didn’t look at the tax records to verify the name.
Bob in OHIO
Senior Member
I misspoke re: the bolt… my apologies/ B
Winchester Cowboy
Senior Member
Does he remember the U-Boat number and where?
Cowboyden
Member
44 in inside diameter.One thing is always certain in this hobby. “Buy the rifle, not the story.”
Having said that, as the bolt cutout pics and general pics show… it’s a matching rifle with a fairly desirable code, but the stock has been sanded to kingdom come. Thankfully the stock stamps were most likely stamped deep from the factory so they are “still visible”. This amount of stock refinishing really hurts the rifle imo.
Any accompanying “story” is null and void. To put it in the simplest terms, the rifle was worked on sometime during the post war period. This could be by the individual who brought it back, or whoever. You can’t know for sure unless somebody who owned the rifle before you, admits it. That fact of being refinished immediately sows doubt on any corresponding story to experienced k98k collectors. Documentation like capture papers and period photos showing that exact rifle (very hard to prove it’s that exact rifle in 1940’s pictures). One thing is for certain, it originally did not leave the Mauser Oberndorf factory looking like it does now. That’s 100%. No German soldier, from a u-boat or from the eastern front near Stalingrad would have sanded the stock in this manner and reversed the recoil lug. Not to mention, an improper tool was used to unscrew the recoil lug and the damage is easily visible, as is the damage to the capture screws by using an improper flathead screwdriver.
When it comes to the capture box, many have been even faked over the years. I mean it’s not really hard especially since originals are throughly documented. A simple test would be to measure the inner length of the box. Most of the time, the provided shipping boxes were too short to hold a k98k in its assembled form. So the most common option was to “duffle cut” the front end of the stock so it can fit. Another was to disassemble the rifle for shipping. Believe it or not, we have experts here that can verify that shipping box. I’m not one of them…
Having said all that, it still has value even with its issues. I’m assuming the bore is mint. You have to figure that RC’s sell for $800-$1000 now fairly regularly and all-matching unmolested examples at the $3000+ mark. On an auction site like gunbroker with a decent description, I would expect this to go for $1400-$1800. Some people will buy the pimp shine stock look because they think it’s correct and really pretty. As for shooting, I would double check the action screws for proper torque and shoot away. If it were mine, I would be trying to figure out how to make the stock look more presentable and closer in look to original. With some searching old threads, you may find some good info on how to so. It’s possible you may have some luck darkening it up a little so it’s not blinding your eyes on a sunny day….
Hope this helps.
Edit: photo on the left from RyanE’s byf42 vs yours. Notice the sharpness of the cutout, the color, the texture, the grain, and the roughness…
Cowboyden
Member
Sling was light and very dry with cracks, I rubbed conditioner on it to preserve it.
Cowboyden
Member
Cyrano4747
Well-known member
You might want to research how to best preserve leather products. I tend to stay away from them because of what a minefield they are (I just don't have the patience to properly care for them), but a lot of "conditioners" do more harm than good over the long term, promoting rot.
It's a pity that the stock was worked over that heavily. Looks like someone might have bleached it to get that "blonde" look that everyone was in love with in the 90s. Still, BYF 42s are hard to find in any condition.
What a shame about the Stock I can only imagine what it would look if the Stock was not Pimp shined .
Most likely would have been one of the best ever posted here .
Most likely would have been one of the best ever posted here .
Cyrano4747
Well-known member
I'll go beyond that and said he did very well for $1k. That's sub-bolt m/m territory these days. The stock being screwed with sucks, but it's still original to the gun. It might not be the tippy top of high end collector pieces, but that's a really hard to get code at the best of times and it's a matching example. Frankly $2k isn't unreasonable, although $1.5 would be more like it.
But yeah, some idiot with bleach and sandpaper turned a $5k rifle into a $2k rifle.
But yeah, some idiot with bleach and sandpaper turned a $5k rifle into a $2k rifle.
Cowboyden
Member
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Cowboyden
Member
Dave, just what would have a stock look like coming fresh out of the factory?
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Herk1994
Senior Member
You have to remember that 80 years of sitting/finger oils/grime etc also changes the original color, so that would be hard to visualize. It would have very sharp lines (such as those around the bolt cutout). Your cutout is rounded, which is always the first place I look for indication of sanding. Sandpaper has rounded all the nice crisp straight edges.
This wasn’t a question directed to me but I have a good example of a nice original stock on my 43’ JPS that is pretty darn close to being in unissued condition, at least after it was reworked and put on this rifle.
Even this stock, as clean as it is shows its age.
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