Mint Wehrkreis XX S42G

[Absolut]

Some time ago a friend of mine approached me with a question what these weird K98k rifle is with so many different codes and non fitting used parts plus someone stamping something stupid in front of the serial .. the suspection based on this serial turned out to be true, it is a Wehrkeis XX (Danzig) assembled K98k rifle, all matching numbers (well, actually the extractor retaining ring is serialized 67). It had a lot of dried up oil on the metal parts that at least for these pictures was roughly removed from the markings on the receiver and the barrel shank. With him now looking into buying something else my chance came, so I took this one home!

A bit weird to me, it seems to have two firing proof stamps on the barrel, one in the normal location, and one atop the barrel. Has anyone ever seen this before? There is a very clean stamp on the grip area, but I cannot tell what it reads, maybe someone can help me deciphering? Also I was wondering whether this was an actually issued receiver that received a new serial (since it seems as if there had been another serial under the receiver serial), or an unused spare part? The mixture of different acceptance stamps is amazing, from Eagle 77 (rear barrel band), Eagle 26 (at least front barrel band and takedown disc), Eagle 1 (buttplate, S/42 and Eagle 63 (cocking piece) to Eagle 623 (ejector), Imperial Eagle 154 (?) receiver, Eagle 280 (bolt, barrel, ..), plus a Gew98 style magazine housing (former scrubbed?), ...

 

[RyanE]

Wrist inspection is HNZaThn4 (Thorn), and all of these WK.XX guns were assembled by HNZa Thorn. Thorn is listed in documentation as the repair center for WK.XX, so HZa Graudenz must have been doing other stuff.

 

[Absolut]

Oh dear, no surprise I had difficulties in deciphering it! Thanks a lot for this information.

 

[Absolut]

No one an idea on the additional proof/acceptance (?) atop the barrel? Had hoped for information on this. Thanks.

 

[cj556]

Looking at possibly buying a very similar rifle (serial 402) with the same barrel top acceptance. Rifle in question is built on a 1916 Spandau Gew 98 receiver and has three digits on front band but only two digits on rear band oddly. Just curious rear band is numbered on this one. Rear sight is also unnumbered on the example I am looking at.

 

[Jdt]

Looking at possibly buying a very similar rifle (serial 402) with the same barrel top acceptance. Rifle in question is built on a 1916 Spandau Gew 98 receiver and has three digits on front band but only two digits on rear band oddly. Just curious rear band is numbered on this one. Rear sight is also unnumbered on the example I am looking at.

If legit, LUCKY!!

 

[joryfreeburg]

That would be a cool rifle Marc……as well as the OP’s rifle….nice gun

 

[Absolut]

Rifle in question is built on a 1916 Spandau Gew 98 receiver and has three digits on front band but only two digits on rear band oddly. Just curious rear band is numbered on this one. Rear sight is also unnumbered on the example I am looking at.

Pulled it from the rack. Initially would had said no serial number at all on rear band, but then pulled the sling (hardly ever had taken me so long to remove a sling, that one was like baken to the frog). Yeah, all three digits on the rear barrel band. The font is unusual smaller, I think the same small size as on the gas shield. The first digit on the other side is super tough to make out. Maybe take a very close look at the rifle that you are looking at, possibly stamped badly?

Edit: added mobile phone shot, sorry for the bad quality

 

[cj556]

Thank you for the photo. Perhaps this one’s obscured by the sling also. Here are the limited photos I have of the rifle but will have it in hand later in the week.

 

[Absolut]

I wouldn't be surprised. Fingers crossed, looking forward to what you can show when you have it in hands!

 

[Hambone]

I’d pay close attention to the bolt numbering CJ. I’d want to take the bolt down and check all that out. Compare, e.g., to Absolut’s rifle. Could be photography, could be digital translation, but it’s asking me questions.

 

[cj556]

I’d pay close attention to the bolt numbering CJ. I’d want to take the bolt down and check all that out. Compare, e.g., to Absolut’s rifle. Could be photography, could be digital translation, but it’s asking me questions.

Thanks Hambone. Photos are unfortunately poor for sure. Is there anything in particular giving you pause about the bolt? This was of concern to me also. The back half looks suspect moreso to me than the handle

 

[Hambone]

Thanks Hambone. Photos are unfortunately poor for sure. Is there anything in particular giving you pause about the bolt? This was of concern to me also. The back half looks suspect moreso to me than the handle

CJ, the grind and flat of the bolt root and apparent unfinished and unblued nature of it is not appropriate to period depot work. The numbering dies used do not look period correct. Depots, in my experience, tended to reuse the same dies on other assembly groups because it wasnt an assembly line as at the factory, but the inspection and repair of individual weapons, in one location, one group, maybe one guy. These die stamps on the bolt don’t look right and look like US ANSI style dies. Compare to Absolut’s nice rifle. There are many who would be wary of his, and I’m grateful for them as over the years I’ve picked up a number of outstanding original repairs and reworks cheap as a result

 

[Absolut]

I thought the same upon viewing his pictures the first time. However, looking at them again they are same oddly oversized as mine, and applied in the way they basically cover almost everything. Unfortunately there is not a single digit identical to mine, so if I was to look at the rifle in person I‘d try to find other Wehrkreis XX rifles and make sure the font and font size match.

 

[cj556]

Much

I’d pay close attention to the bolt numbering CJ. I’d want to take the bolt down and check all that out. Compare, e.g., to Absolut’s rifle. Could be photography, could be digital translation, but it’s asking me questions.

Much appreciated and thanks for breaking it down too. May have saved me a lot of money.

 

[RyanE]

Both of these rifles are not "typical" for WK XX. Most of the guns use a larger font, and the X's are serifed. The "early" three digit guns were just different from the others. Another as been posted here XX706 and it matches these two, including the thin X, the strange extra beschußstempel on top, and the odd looking font.

I am guessing the serifed 'X' stamps were introduced sometime after assembly began along with the new font. Some of the later guns show the X stamps looking a bit degraded like XX7213, and my very late one XX9310 has the X's made what what looks like chisel strikes. Maybe the dies just wore out.

I will say the font used on XX402 looks like a dead match for that found on LZA2 reworked guns. It clearly isn't an LZA2 rework, so I don't know what that means, if anything. To me, the bolt body looks like a match at least when compared to the other parts, but the back half is a bit suspect.

 

[Hambone]

Both of these rifles are not "typical" for WK XX. Most of the guns use a larger font, and the X's are serifed. The "early" three digit guns were just different from the others. Another as been posted here XX706 and it matches these two, including the thin X, the strange extra beschußstempel on top, and the odd looking font.

I am guessing the serifed 'X' stamps were introduced sometime after assembly began along with the new font. Some of the later guns show the X stamps looking a bit degraded like XX7213, and my very late one XX9310 has the X's made what what looks like chisel strikes. Maybe the dies just wore out.

I will say the font used on XX402 looks like a dead match for that found on LZA2 reworked guns. It clearly isn't an LZA2 rework, so I don't know what that means, if anything. To me, the bolt body looks like a match at least when compared to the other parts, but the back half is a bit suspect.

I'm speaking of the bolt on 402, not the barreled action. Compare. I'd like to see one comparable to 402 on a vetted original. If you have one, let's see it.

 

[RyanE]

I'm speaking of the bolt on 402, not the barreled action. Compare. I'd like to see one comparable to 402 on a vetted original. If you have one, let's see it.

Sure, I was just musing on the progression of the action markings over time. I don't have any comparisons to make with an early type XX gun. The three posted in this thread are the only ones I have seen.

That said, I think the action is real, and the 4 used on it matches the bolt body. The small-ish, strange looking font used on 402 also seems to match in style to the other two guns. All of that, to me, suggests its authentic, though I think better pics of the rear bolt components are still needed.

 

[Hambone]

Sure, I was just musing on the progression of the action markings over time. I don't have any comparisons to make with an early type XX gun. The three posted in this thread are the only ones I have seen.

That said, I think the action is real, and the 4 used on it matches the bolt body. The small-ish, strange looking font used on 402 also seems to match in style to the other two guns. All of that, to me, suggests its authentic, though I think better pics of the rear bolt components are still needed.

Sorry, not feeling it based upon the bolt pics I’m seeing here and my prior experience. Again, can digital pics distort and is a hands on needed on this to be definitive, sure. Would I send money for a matching rifle based upon these pics alone? Nope. Detailed pics of the serials on the FP, striker/sear, and good ones of the safety and the bolt are needed. But again, from what I see here, nope.

 

[cj556]

Not buying the rifle thru the mail fwiw. Will be inspecting in person later in the week and will take photos in hand.