VZ 24 depot marked and matching.

[George R.]

Just got this one this weekend, all matching ( original Czech numbers ) bolt blued and stock repair for the sling swivel thru the wrist. It is duffle cut and looks to be blood staining or some other substance that removed the blue on front and barrel, also by the bolt catch. Mz 8 depot marking. Still full of grease under the wood, bore is as new. Could not beat the price. GR

 

[Bigdibbs88]

Good looking rifle, keep it safe for me

 

[Bob in OHIO]

...love it!

 

[THunter]

Great Vz! Would love to find one like that. Thanks for sharing, you've got some nice rifles!

Neat way they used the K98 sling.

 

[Hambone]

Very nice George.

On blue removal, moisture, such as in a carpet or gun case or damp cloth up against bluing will do that pretty quick. That's why we have to be careful never to store rifles in a closet touching a carpeted floor or leave guns in a gun case that can get wet. If you get a leak or anything else and the carpet gets wet it will removal the bluing straight away, then start pitting. Don't ask me how I learned about that.

 

[George R.]

Hi Craig,

pretty sure that is not from wet carpet or gun case, to thick and specifically located. No other damage, GR

Very nice George.

On blue removal, moisture, such as in a carpet or gun case or damp cloth up against bluing will do that pretty quick. That's why we have to be careful never to store rifles in a closet touching a carpeted floor or leave guns in a gun case that can get wet. If you get a leak or anything else and the carpet gets wet it will removal the bluing straight away, then start pitting. Don't ask me how I learned about that.

 

[George R.]

Lowballus Hozerous, I mean Big Dooker 88, I will keep it safe for you, damn straight bolts anyway.


Thanks guys for the kind words.


GR

Good looking rifle, keep it safe for me

 

[Hambone]

Hi Craig,

pretty sure that is not from wet carpet or gun case, to thick and specifically located. No other damage, GR

George, I've cleaned and examined probably 50+ Katrina firearms for buddies that suffered various states of water damage due to submersion, partial submersion, emersion for a day to a week, and gun case contact moisture. That blue loss on your Vz. is absolutely classic water/moisture contact for a couple days. I had a .22 in a cheap soft case that soaked up moisture from the carpet due to a air vent leak and the barrel blue loss / contact damage looked exactly like that. If you left a rifle outdoors in the rain it would get wet, dry out, get air rust. If you put a wet piece of cloth on that firearm and let moisture constantly contact it you would get what you see on the Vz.

If that rifle was wrapped in canvas, in a gun case, wrapped in a blanket, whatever, which was moist and that water moisture was in contact with that area of blue for a couple days, the damage would look exactly like that and be that bad, exactly. That is why when people say don't store guns in cases where they won't breathe, this is why. The vast majority of the time "blood pitting" is really just moisture damage from constant moisture contact with blue.

 

[George R.]

Craig,
please educate me and post some pics of water damaged blued finishes. I would be very interested in seeing bluing removed by water without hurting the steel especially two dissimilar steels. This has me most puzzled. GR

 

[mauser99]

g.r. Id like to see more photos of the modified k98 sling. I made notes of how the k98k sling was modified for the g29o. The found photo evidence of the slings being used in that same manner. Looks like the sling was modified up at the top swivel ? Just curious. Nice score by the way.. Not an easy rifle to find.

 

[George R.]

Wayne,

being as we have a blizzard going on here, pics will be shortly buddy. GR

g.r. Id like to see more photos of the modified k98 sling. I made notes of how the k98k sling was modified for the g29o. The found photo evidence of the slings being used in that same manner. Looks like the sling was modified up at the top swivel ? Just curious. Nice score by the way.. Not an easy rifle to find.

 

[Hambone]

Craig,
please educate me and post some pics of water damaged blued finishes. I would be very interested in seeing bluing removed by water without hurting the steel especially two dissimilar steels. This has me most puzzled. GR

Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust

George, if you've ever removed rust from a blued finish only to see white metal under it you've seen "bluing removed by water without hurting the steel". As you know, bluing is little more than controlled chemical oxidation of steel, actually the iron content in steel. Finish removal by moisture (i.e., rust) has been experienced by anyone who has ever removed rust from a blued, parkerized, or phosphate finish from a firearm. If the rust (oxidation) has been present and in an environmental condition where it oxidizes further than finish removal one gets "pitting" (damage to the steel). If anyone doesn't believe me they can take a blued firearm, put it outside on the porch, get a moist/wet wash rag and place it on the blued finish. Make sure the rag stays moist, which it likely will if not in sunlight. In a couple days come look at your blued finish. Knock that rust off of there and what do you see? White metal. If you want the steel to pit, just leave it like that longer. If you really want to see an example of this, but a blued rifle in a cloth gun case. Dunk it in the water and then simply put the rifle in the wet case in your closet. Come look at it in about three days. Once the rust is removed you won't have finish left and the steel won't be pitted.

When oxidation is controlled (bluing) or stops due to a change in the environment which stops the rusting, one can get various levels of oxidation, from surface rust which can be removed from the surface of the blued finish, to rust which gets through the blued finish and results in removal of the blue finish with the rust, to rust which gets into the base steel and causes pitting. All this is dependent upon the environment and how long the moisture stays on the firearm before that condition is removed.

 

[George R.]

OK Craig, I see where this is going will not play these games, I have been a Tool maker for 30 years, EDM, CNC multiple coatings and process's of heat treating. Remember arguing with a lawyer is like trying to stop a boar from screwing a hot hawg. It aint gonna happen. End of story with wiki quotes. GR

Here you go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust

George, if you've ever removed rust from a blued finish only to see white metal under it you've seen "bluing removed by water without hurting the steel". As you know, bluing is little more than controlled chemical oxidation of steel, actually the iron content in steel. Finish removal by moisture (i.e., rust) has been experienced by anyone who has ever removed rust from a blued, parkerized, or phosphate finish from a firearm. If the rust (oxidation) has been present and in an environmental condition where it oxidizes further than finish removal one gets "pitting" (damage to the steel). If anyone doesn't believe me they can take a blued firearm, put it outside on the porch, get a moist/wet wash rag and place it on the blued finish. Make sure the rag stays moist, which it likely will if not in sunlight. In a couple days come look at your blued finish. Knock that rust off of there and what do you see? White metal. If you want the steel to pit, just leave it like that longer. If you really want to see an example of this, but a blued rifle in a cloth gun case. Dunk it in the water and then simply put the rifle in the wet case in your closet. Come look at it in about three days. Once the rust is removed you won't have finish left and the steel won't be pitted.

When oxidation is controlled (bluing) or stops due to a change in the environment which stops the rusting, one can get various levels of oxidation, from surface rust which can be removed from the surface of the blued finish, to rust which gets through the blued finish and results in removal of the blue finish with the rust, to rust which gets into the base steel and causes pitting. All this is dependent upon the environment and how long the moisture stays on the firearm before that condition is removed.

 

[George R.]

Wayne, here you go if you need shots or locations just ask. GR

g.r. Id like to see more photos of the modified k98 sling. I made notes of how the k98k sling was modified for the g29o. The found photo evidence of the slings being used in that same manner. Looks like the sling was modified up at the top swivel ? Just curious. Nice score by the way.. Not an easy rifle to find.

 

[Hambone]

So, instead of responding substantively, you resort to insult the speaker to undermine a point you don't agree with? Then you insult me based upon what I do for a living? That's a game George, and not a particularly good one. Why not use your expertise to respond substantively? I don't care whether the finish removal on your rifle was caused by the blood of Joachim Peiper or the result of being in a gun case that got wet. I'm merely providing information based upon my first hand experiences as a collector, shooter, hunter, and person who has been handling firearms in a humid environment for over 35 years. Whether I sell shelled pecans on the side of the road or operate on brains for a living is of no moment, my observations and experiences are the same.

I think anyone who has ever dealt with a rusty firearm knows that many times removing the rust will remove the blue, exposing white metal underneath, many times undamaged white metal, less blue. That's not something most people get angry about or debate anymore than debating whether or not the sun is hot.

OK Craig, I see where this is going will not play these games, I have been a Tool maker for 30 years, EDM, CNC multiple coatings and process's of heat treating. Remember arguing with a lawyer is like trying to stop a boar from screwing a hot hawg. It aint gonna happen. End of story with wiki quotes. GR

 

[mauser99]

A quick and easy way to make it work. Looks like its been on there a long time. Also, there are a number of fluids that can remove bluing like that..

 

[Hambone]

A quick and easy way to make it work. Looks like its been on there a long time. Also, there are a number of fluids that can remove bluing like that..

One of those "fluids" is water. It's what causes rust. Rust removes bluing. Over longer periods of exposure to the conditions which create rust, it pits metal. White vinegar will really remove bluing, quick. So will blood because the main component of blood is water and some salt.

George, what is your theory on the blue removal on that band as I've apparently got no credibility on the subject?

 

[George R.]

Craig, you insulted me with a lame wiki quote, like I am some uninformed child, anyone can cut copy paste with no knowledge whatsoever, I have degree's in metallurgy,machining and 30 years experience of working with steels and alloys. I am not going to go into the depths of hell in this conversation until you study metallurgy or have real world experience based on smithing or metal work. I asked for pictures so we could have a conversation, you want to discuss fluidity or viscosity we can and all have different ways of affecting metal, nothing personal, I am not here to argue. GR


QUOTE=Hambone;78881]So, instead of responding substantively, you resort to insult the speaker to undermine a point you don't agree with? Then you insult me based upon what I do for a living? That's a game George, and not a particularly good one. Why not use your expertise to respond substantively? I don't care whether the finish removal on your rifle was caused by the blood of Joachim Peiper or the result of being in a gun case that got wet. I'm merely providing information based upon my first hand experiences as a collector, shooter, hunter, and person who has been handling firearms in a humid environment for over 35 years. Whether I sell shelled pecans on the side of the road or operate on brains for a living is of no moment, my observations and experiences are the same.

I think anyone who has ever dealt with a rusty firearm knows that many times removing the rust will remove the blue, exposing white metal underneath, many times undamaged white metal, less blue. That's not something most people get angry about or debate anymore than debating whether or not the sun is hot.[/QUOTE]

 

[George R.]

Well, blood forms in layers and builds up, it does not flow the same AS water, it also has a different rate as drying time. Water is vaporous and will condensate into cracks and under other metal parts, especially when heat/humidity is present. This does not show further discoloration under the band showing that it was a thick fluid or chemical. Muratic acid is another one, it flows very well. GR

One of those "fluids" is water. It's what causes rust. Rust removes bluing. Over longer periods of exposure to the conditions which create rust, it pits metal. White vinegar will really remove bluing, quick. So will blood because the main component of blood is water and some salt.

George, what is your theory on the blue removal on that band as I've apparently got no credibility on the subject?

 

[Hambone]

Craig, you insulted me with a lame wiki quote, like I am some uninformed child, anyone can cut copy paste with no knowledge whatsoever, I have degree's in metallurgy,machining and 30 years experience of working with steels and alloys. I am not going to go into the depths of hell in this conversation until you study metallurgy or have real world experience based on smithing or metal work. I asked for pictures so we could have a conversation, you want to discuss fluidity or viscosity we can and all have different ways of affecting metal, nothing personal, I am not here to argue. GR

It's not a "lame wiki quote", it's the science of rust. If you want to insult based upon profession, here is my observation: You must have skipped the class on what rust does to blued firearms. If you think someone needs a degree in metallurgy to render the opinion that water/moisture on blued steel causes rust which will then remove bluing once the rust is removed, exactly as shown on your subject band, then I'd say you're being ridiculous and argumentative. I was not aware of your many years of metallurgical expertise and frankly, I could care less, because I know what I have seen and experienced with my own eyes for over 30 years. You aren't going to change the facts with your metallurgical Ph.D or whatever you have. You know this, and so does everyone here.