1871 Mausers in Africa during WW1

Warrior1354

Warrior1354

ax - hole
Wanted to see if anyone on here has found in 1871 Mauser rifles that were used by the German forces in Africa during WW1. Thought it was kind of neat that the German forces there were still using the 1871 Black-powder Mausers effectively during the war. Any information provided is greatly appreciated
 
Warrior1354 said:
Wanted to see if anyone on here has found in 1871 Mauser rifles that were used by the German forces in Africa during WW1. Thought it was kind of neat that the German forces there were still using the 1871 Black-powder Mausers effectively during the war. Any information provided is greatly appreciated
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If memory serves me right the 71's were only used by Askaris...not the german troops. And more often than not these were swapped out with captured SMLE's at every chance.
One thing the germans did do was treat their askari troops with a modicum of respect and drilled them properly. That much cannot be said of the empire's attitude and treatment of their "colonial natives".
 
Thanks for bringing that up I kind of remember hearing about that. Is there any special markings found on M1871 and M1871/84 showing that they were assigned to the Askaris? To me its kind of neat that they were using a weapon that was already over 40 years old at the time effectively against the allied forces.
 
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I have two Jäger M71s, one issued to the Schutztruppe German East Africa (Lettow- Vorbeck's crew) and the other to the Schutztruppe for German Cameroon. Both have the 1909 modification for colonial service B71s: an ejector added. If memory serves when the last of the KSDOA surrendered at Abercorn they still had something like 15 B71s; all other rifles were either German 98s or captured British or Portuguese arms.
The B71s were issued to native troops (Askaris).
My African B71s show initial issue to German Army units (cancelled) and are then marked for their respective Schutztruppen. So far I have not found or seen any 71/84s issued to Schutztruppe nor have I confirmed that the Schutztruppen (per se) ever got them. The bayonet issued with the B71s for the Schutztruppen was the S84.
Typical Schutztruppe unit markings (on rifles, bayonets and pistols) as follows:
German Southwest: K.S. (no.)
German East: Sch.D.O.A. (no.)
German Cameroon: Sch.K. (no.)
No Schutztruppe for Togo; Police only: P.T.(no).
Police mobilized as Schutztruppe:
German Southwest: L.P. (no.)
Other colonies not known by me.
 
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Hello Guys,

what is even more interesting is the fact that in 1909 the german Schutztruppe in East-Africa denied the delivery of modern Mauser 98 weapons. They liked their "old 71" better because they thought that a Mauser (Jägerbüchse) 71 was more realiable then a Mauser 98.

To keep in mind: this decision was just for the Askaris and not for the german NCO's. They used modern 8mm 98 rifles and carbines.


With kind regards

Vincent
 
Spartaner545 said:
Hello Guys,

what is even more interesting is the fact that in 1909 the german Schutztruppe in East-Africa denied the delivery of modern Mauser 98 weapons. They liked their "old 71" better because they thought that a Mauser (Jägerbüchse) 71 was more realiable then a Mauser 98.

To keep in mind: this decision was just for the Askaris and not for the german NCO's. They used modern 8mm 98 rifles and carbines.


With kind regards

Vincent
Click to expand...

They took delivery of M98 system arms after 1914...
 
WaPrüf2 said:
They took delivery of M98 system arms after 1914...
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You are right. They did.

I just wanted to point out that they didn't see the Jägerbüchse 71 as a old and out fashioned Weapon as mentioned by Warrior.
It served very good as a colonial rifle in the few colonial conflicts that germany had before WWI broke out.

With kind regards

Vincent
 
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Glad to see more information on this subject thought this would be a neat issue to discuss. Just glad to here more info of the M1871 Mausers combat usage in battle due to being replaced by the Gewehr 88 and the Gewehr 98 rifles. Been doing some reading on this subject too. Due to the German forces having supplies being block from coming in many of the German Askaris units had to soldier on with their M1871 rifle due to lack of 8mm ammunition. Just goes to show you the M1871 rifles were a tough hard hitting big bore Mauser with more then enough stopping power in the jungle.
 
They did have a smoke signature problem which led to experiments with and limited issue of smokeless 11x60R ammunition specifically for colonial use also beginning in 1909.

I'm not so sure I would say that there were few colonial military actions in the period ca. 1884 (when German colonial efforts in Africa more-or-less got going) and 1914 - they had quite a time with the locals in DSWA and DOA...
 
A cautionary note regarding bent bolt B71s: The bent bolt G98s used in DSWA were used in boots on horses/camels (the Schutztruppe DSWA functioned as mounted infantry) hence the bent bolts. Given the use of various rifles for sporting purposes postwar and the possibility of them being modified for civilian use I would be cautious about accepting a bent bolt B71 as a legitimate Schutztruppe alteration unless somebody produces a contemporary in-area photo showing one in Schutztruppe or police use or official specs for the alteration. The alteration is certainly possible; perhaps likely, but not proven.

We still have a good deal to learn regarding Schutztruppe small arms.
 
Hello guys,

about this colonial JB71:

it is just a consideration but maybe the bolt is a replacement bolt from a carbine 71. This would explain the curved bolt although the shape is a little bit different to a standard carbine 71 bolt...

When you look at the pictures on the website about this JB71 you can see that the little plate (which holds the system in place when being pulled all the way back) is rounded.

As far as i know these plates are round for the Mauser 71 carbine. The plate for the Jägerbüchse and the Infanteriegewehr (rifle) are edged. I will show some pictures of the different plates from my JB71 and C71 to prove my point.


What do you guys think?

With kind regards

Vincent
 

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Spartaner545 said:
Hello guys,

about this colonial JB71:

it is just a consideration but maybe the bolt is a replacement bolt from a carbine 71. This would explain the curved bolt although the shape is a little bit different to a standard carbine 71 bolt...

When you look at the pictures on the website about this JB71 you can see that the little plate (which holds the system in place when being pulled all the way back) is rounded.

As far as i know these plates are round for the Mauser 71 carbine. The plate for the Jägerbüchse and the Infanteriegewehr (rifle) are edged. I will show some pictures of the different plates from my JB71 and C71 to prove my point.


What do you guys think?

With kind regards

Vincent
Click to expand...


I think you are right. Good catch!
 
Interesting thing about the Kamerun Askari shown in post 12 is the his bayonet which appears to be both longer and wider than the S84 -perhaps some version of the PFMs for the B71.
 
Yeah. It seems a bit big and long for a regular 71/84. But i have never seen a picture of Askari using a Pionierfaschinenmesser 71 before...
 
Hi Guys,

another fascinating thing to know about the 11mm weapons in the german colonies.

As i understand it, the main reason for the Schutztruppe to start changing their weapons from the 11mm Mauser 71's to the 8mm Mauser 98's around 1912-1914 was simply the lack of spare parts coming from Germany. The Production of rifles and Jägerbüchsen had stopped in Germany many years before und so the Schutztruppe was not able to fill their gaps with new 71 guns or spare parts to repair old ones.
So again, they didn't see their Mauser 71's as underpowered or outdated in any way.

World war one interrupted the change to the new 8mm weapons and therefore a lot of the Askaris went to war with their old Jägerbüchse/Karabiner 71.

Of course this Change im talking about means the change of the weapons for the german Askaris and other tribal support troops in German East Africa and Kamerun. The white Soldiers and NCO's in nearly all colonies got their modern Mauser 98's way before the war started.


With kind regards

Vincent
 
I know most of the forum has seen this rifle (no spam intended), but I'll add to the thread for new readers and to give this a conclusion.
Got this many thanks from help on this forum.

Spandau Matching German Colonial issue Mauser I.G 7.1 (So they do exist!)
Shoots great !
 

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