1874 NAA Gew 71 6656c

[chrisftk]

Had a few days off, so I'll actually post something! I picked this one up a few months ago as an easy project. It's an otherwise matching Gew 71 that some knucklehead knocked the rear sight off somewhere along the line. Fortunately I sourced a spare sight base and leaf assembly, so it was an easy fix to solder a new one on. The only other quirk was a replacement front sling loop on the band..

The biggest reason I bought it was that the rifle itself is one of the elusive British-produced ones from National Arms and Ammunition in Birmingham. The story is outlined in another post, but I will link below

National Arms and Ammunition Co. Birmingham Gewehr 71

Hi All, These rifles have interested me since learning about them several years ago. The notion of a British-made M71 is a curious one. According to Storz, a contract for 150,000 rifles was signed with NA&A in Birmingham. Only around 100,000 were delivered, apparently due to Prussian...

www.k98kforum.com

These had an abysmal survival rate like most non-Amberg 71s, so it was nice to find an honest, albeit salty and well-carried example. It is also matching except for the rear sight assembly. This one has the WW1-era steel triggerguard and there is still some of the black paint remaining.

There are a few peculiarities with these and I'll try to outline the differences. Naturally, the NAA triangle logo is the most apparent; along with the near-total lack of Prussian crown inspection stamps. Other quirks include:
- Bolt acceptance is on top of the bolt. Naturally, British style
- Stock is not internally numbered at all-- there is a SN parallel to the buttplate on the left rear of the stock. Internally there are only a few inspection markings.
- There is a SN suffix on the bayonet lug/nosecap
- The only acceptance I see is on the right side of the stock (Cypher and stamps) and a single acceptance stamp on the barrel.

At first I thought the unit marking was the 1st Infantry Regt, Ersatz batallion, 1st company, but there may be a character in front of the "1"- (maybe a 3?) It's hard to tell with the wear/oxidization on the buttplate flat. I'll get a closer look next time I have it out.

 

[Fal Grunt]

Very nice!

Certainly a hard one to find in any condition!

 

[biggymu]

Very nice Chris. I remember touching on these with you in another thread. Such an oddity to find a British made German firearm

 

[chrisftk]

Very nice!

Certainly a hard one to find in any condition!

Thanks! It was relatively cheap and had a very fixable issue, so I figured it would be a very worthy project. I got a little worried when you didn't have any sight leaves, but I stumbled on one very quickly after we spoke..

Very nice Chris. I remember touching on these with you in another thread. Such an oddity to find a British made German firearm

Thanks Rick, I agree there's something charming about these definitely the stepchild of the 71 family but one worth having.

 

[joryfreeburg]

Nice post Chris…. I am always here to learn. Gew71’s are definitely not my strong suit, nice information

 

[Loewe]

Nice post Chris…. I am always here to learn. Gew71’s are definitely not my strong suit, nice information

they're no one's strong suit! (unfortunately... with the loss of CB we are poking around in the dark)

I added this rifle to the research thread, from what I saw there is no number before the "1" though it seems improbable. If Chris can identify a number b4 the "1" that would be great, but the picture sure doesn't support a missing digit. Still these are rare and very early even less common (that a mid-c block is early tells the tale!) A great addition to trends!

 

[Cyrano4747]

Very nice. That’s hard to get regardless.

 

[chrisftk]

I added this rifle to the research thread, from what I saw there is no number before the "1" though it seems improbable. If Chris can identify a number b4 the "1" that would be great, but the picture sure doesn't support a missing digit. Still these are rare and very early even less common (that a mid-c block is early tells the tale!) A great addition to trends!

I looked at it with a magnifier today-- I don't think anything is before the "1", so we can book it as such.

Thanks all!

 

[OnlyMil]

I was today years old when I found out these exist. Had no idea ~100K Gewehr 71s were made in England. Always learning something new here. Those Brits just really could not resist doing things their own way lol. Very nice pickup Chris

 

[Cyrano4747]

These had an abysmal survival rate like most non-Amberg 71s,

Can you expand on this a bit? It’s the first I’m hearing of significantly more Amberg’s making it to the present day. Any particular reason why?

 

[chrisftk]

Can you expand on this a bit? It’s the first I’m hearing of significantly more Amberg’s making it to the present day. Any particular reason why?

I've never been able to determine any sort of reason other than maybe how the Bavarians disposed of theirs or how long they held on to them.

The Bavarians resisted adopting the 71 initially and this led to them starting production late due to a prolonged clinging to the Werder. Amberg made far fewer of these than the Prussian arsenals, but Spandau, Danzig and Erfurt are significantly harder to find than Ambergs. If you look at the serial number study it's pretty evident. i'd hazard a guess that you'll see at least 10 Amberg-produced rifles before you see anything else. Most of the ŒWG ones you see are export (likely South America) too, rather than Prussian contract. The other private contractors, such as Dreyse, Mauser, NAA and the Consortium are all scarce as well. Much more so than the Prussian arsenals

 

[biggymu]

If US troops brought back arms from areas where they were deployed, might this account for such a phenomenon? In essence, could where we fought be closer to the Amberg factory, or forces supplied by that maker, then say others? Just reaching. I realize the German forces were mobile.

 

[Cyrano4747]

I've never been able to determine any sort of reason other than maybe how the Bavarians disposed of theirs or how long they held on to them.

The Bavarians resisted adopting the 71 initially and this led to them starting production late due to a prolonged clinging to the Werder. Amberg made far fewer of these than the Prussian arsenals, but Spandau, Danzig and Erfurt are significantly harder to find than Ambergs. If you look at the serial number study it's pretty evident. i'd hazard a guess that you'll see at least 10 Amberg-produced rifles before you see anything else. Most of the ŒWG ones you see are export (likely South America) too, rather than Prussian contract. The other private contractors, such as Dreyse, Mauser, NAA and the Consortium are all scarce as well. Much more so than the Prussian arsenals

Interesting, thanks.

 

[chrisftk]

If US troops brought back arms from areas where they were deployed, might this account for such a phenomenon? In essence, could where we fought be closer to the Amberg factory, or forces supplied by that maker, then say others? Just reaching. I realize the German forces were mobile.

I don't know that I'd attribute it to that. If that were they case, we'd probably see more Bavarian 98s and 88s than we do.

I think it might have more to do with where/who the Bavarians dumped their obsolete rifles on. Another example is that I have seen several Mauser-made 71s with Thai/Siamese use. A disproportionately higher number than it *should* be given the small size of Wurttembergische contracts. My guess would be that the Wurt. officials sold obsolete rifles to Siam. Maybe this is a similar case, as most of the Ambergs I see are fairly worn and may have been imported from other environs.

 

[Loewe]

I agree with Chris, look to the trends and the context of the structure of Germany prior to 1919, Bavaria and Saxony often colored outside of the lines and neither had much in common with Prussia (both owing some of their relative autonomy - Saxony its mere existence - to Austria... if Wilson had had a backbone and France any sense at all, Bavaria and possibly Saxony in a plebiscite might have merged with a free Austria or gone it alone, but Wilson was a POS and the French the self-destructive imbeciles they so often were in the last 600-700 years...)

Personally the world would be a much better place if Prussia never existed (though Frederick II was possibly the next greatest European after Napoleon - head of state certainly) and France after 1815 broken up, unity is rarely a good thing in great states, they tend to prey and consume neighbors (mostly due to human nature's impact upon politicians/the excessively ambitious and the powerful)

 

[Fal Grunt]

Another example is that I have seen several Mauser-made 71s with Thai/Siamese use. A disproportionately higher number than it *should* be given the small size of Wurttembergische contracts. My guess would be that the Wurt. officials sold obsolete rifles to Siam

These rifles were made under contract w/Mauser and were not surplus German arms.

 

[chrisftk]

These rifles were made under contract w/Mauser and were not surplus German arms.

I'm not saying they weren't-- I mean they were sold to Siam by the govt after they were scrapped as obsolete. I'm not implying direct sale to Siam from Mauser.

The ones I have seen have Württemberg cartouches

 

[Warrior1354]

Well, we know the german government had to destroy so many rifles due to Treaty of Versailles. What better rifles to use than the ones that were readily available in the depots. Like our beloved 1918 dated Gew98 rifles. And are obsolete rifles like rare maker 1871 mausers. Unfortunately that seems to be the case with all rare rifles.

 

[chrisftk]

Well, we know the german government had to destroy so many rifles due to Treaty of Versailles. What better rifles to use than the ones that were readily available in the depots. Like our beloved 1918 dated Gew98 rifles. And are obsolete rifles like rare maker 1871 mausers. Unfortunately that seems to be the case with all rare rifles.

Yeah my suspicion in line with Paul's comments is that the reason we see more Bavarian 71s is that they may have been a little bit more defiant in what they did with their weaponry. I suspect the low number of Prussian arsenal and other makers would indicate that they were more compliant and destroyed them.

 

[Loewe]

When I did my research on the property mark (1920) and the formation of the IAMCC / confiscations due to Spa conference, - which was not a "disarming of the people" as so often implied, rather designed to remove military arms from civilian hands (most especially those that were or could find their way into the various paramilitary's groups plaguing German stability (indeed its sovereignty). This ran the gambit from small arms to serious military hardware, and wasn't directed at right or left faction (each informed against one another..), - in short any loose military weapons that could fall into their hands. The SPD (Ebert) was pretty rational and saw threats to German sovereignty from all sides, which was quite realistic... while I despise all left wing political factions (national socialist are left wing by the way, they just happen to be nationalistic, but so was the KPD/communists in their own fashion - the founder of the EWB called them nationalistic bolsheviks), including the SPD (socialist and unionist & anti-capitalist) they were the best choice among a long list of worse options (they worked well with the last best chance, for stability, in Germany - the army - but kept it under control).

In real terms the SPD was probably the most "German" (viable) option of the major political parties since the fall of Bismarck. God knows Germany's problems were not cultural, militarist or nationalistic - nor unique to German character. What occurred 1933-1945, the ghastly crimes are part of human nature and only the application of "industrialization" to the cruelty & savagery is unique or makes it stand out, -anyone stupid enough to think the crimes of the "holocaust" are not possible or could not exist in every culture is a fool.

The way things are going in the western world, what remains of it, makes it more probable it will reoccur in the near future. Not less likely and then we will see how much genocide is part of human nature.