1911 Erfurt kar 98a unit marked with fire damage and matched

yeeyee123

Active member
Hello all, I do not frequent this forum, but I have recently won something that is out of my realm of knowledge (unit mark wise) and may be of interest to y'all. I collect Astro-Hungarian arms more than German ones and I'm pretty good at translating and tracking Astro-Hungarian units, have had luck translating and tracking my other German unit marked pieces, but I have nowhere to begin on this 98a. Well, outside of the fact it appears to be a completely matching (outwardly) 1911 dated Erfurt example with no usual signs of wartime or post war work. It has the plainer "kar 98" script on the receiver as well which I thought was stopped before this time but that's of little consequence. Of course, I will post photos of this rifle and all of its parts once it is in my hands for those more knowledgeable than me to judge. It's a bit burnt if you can't tell but doesn't look sanded, it will make an excellent display piece at the minimum.

Anyways I am reading the units as 13 AFE 261 and 2 MGK 26. I know the latter means 2nd machine gun company weapon 26 and my knowledge ends there. A German collector friend thinks the former unit mark is the 13th foot artillery ersatz regiment but was unsure. Assuming those readings are correct, I have conflicting trains of thought. I associate the term ersatz with a wartime substitute unit or good so part of me reasons the artillery unit is the most recently assigned unit. Problem being is that mark is located where unit marks would typically go on a 98a without a takedown disk and the machine gun unit mark is in an abnormal spot perhaps signifying it came second instead. Hell, maybe it's all one big unit mark because one apparently refers to a regiment and the other a company and nothing is lined out, I do not know.

Again, not really my area of expertise so if anyone has the knowledge to translate these units, determine which unit mark is the most recent one, or perhaps even has access to the history of these units through the war I would greatly appreciate any of those things. I do again promise to provide detailed photos of the parts and serials when the rifle is in my possession. Thanks!
 

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I remember this rifle. It's been up for auction a couple times in the last year. I think it may have been returned to Centurion at one point and re- auctioned. Very cool unit markings. Shame about the fire damage, but as long as you got it for a decent price I wouldn't sweat that part. Just don't shoot it. If it truly was in a fire there's a good chance the heat treating would have been ruined.

The location of the unit marks is fine as far as I'm concerned. I have a machine gun marked 98A with a marking on the buttplate flat like yours. Normally the older unit mark would have been cancelled, but didn't always happen. Please post more pictures when you have it in hand.
 
Will do on the photos, it was up for auction a total of 3 times and I bid each time. Sold for about twice what I paid the first time, and 1.5 times the second time and I got it for $800 after shipping and buyers premium this time. I am happy with that.

As for function, I am more concerned about the stock holding recoil as it sits vs the heat treat. I had the auctioneer checked the magazine tension and the firing pin spring and both functioned and seemed strong. I also see no heat affected zone on the white areas of the extractor so I’m thinking the metal may actually be fine. Obviously I will thoroughly inspect it on receipt. If I decide to make it operable I’ll be adding something to the interior of the mag well to reinforce it.
 
I remember this rifle. It's been up for auction a couple times in the last year. I think it may have been returned to Centurion at one point and re- auctioned. Very cool unit markings. Shame about the fire damage, but as long as you got it for a decent price I wouldn't sweat that part. Just don't shoot it. If it truly was in a fire there's a good chance the heat treating would have been ruined.

The location of the unit marks is fine as far as I'm concerned. I have a machine gun marked 98A with a marking on the buttplate flat like yours. Normally the older unit mark would have been cancelled, but didn't always happen. Please post more pictures when you have it in hand.
 
Will do on the photos, it was up for auction a total of 3 times and I bid each time. Sold for about twice what I paid the first time, and 1.5 times the second time and I got it for $800 after shipping and buyers premium this time. I am happy with that.

As for function, I am more concerned about the stock holding recoil as it sits vs the heat treat. I had the auctioneer checked the magazine tension and the firing pin spring and both functioned and seemed strong. I also see no heat affected zone on the white areas of the extractor so I’m thinking the metal may actually be fine. Obviously I will thoroughly inspect it on receipt. If I decide to make it operable I’ll be adding something to the interior of the mag well to reinforce it.
I still wouldn't risk it. Springs on the inside of a gun are going to get exposed to different temps than the outside. You don't need the whole gun's heat treat to be screwed up, even having a weak spot on one side of the receiver could lead to a bad day at the range.

It's a cool rifle. I'd just enjoy it as a collectable and a neat example of something for the collection and not try to make as shooter of it.
 
I still wouldn't risk it. Springs on the inside of a gun are going to get exposed to different temps than the outside. You don't need the whole gun's heat treat to be screwed up, even having a weak spot on one side of the receiver could lead to a bad day at the range.

It's a cool rifle. I'd just enjoy it as a collectable and a neat example of something for the collection and not try to make as shooter of it.

I understand the sentiment, I should have prefaced by saying I often make my own springs and have some background in heat treating to where I’m confident in assessing the action when it arrives to me. The springs remaining tempered just indicates there is a possibility the metal works are fine but I am by no mean saying that indicates the rest of it is gtg.

13.Fuss Artillerie Regiment, Ersatz Batallion, 2 Company weapon nr.61
2.MG Kompanie, weapon nr.26
teoretically the 2MG could be raised in war or its total different unit, which has no link to 13AF.
Many thanks Andy, so there is some ambiguity as to whether it’s two units or one then I’ll take it
 
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