1916 Erfurt kar98a/question

[duckyflipper]

Hello everyone

Been lurking for a while on here, figured I’d introduce myself with my first German Mauser purchase

Got this from an older gentleman on a local trader forum for 600. It’s a total mixmaster from what I can tell, but the bore is nice, and should make a good shooter.

The story was that this was a bring back from ww1, but the stamping “ONYX EZ MT” on the receiver makes me think that this is an import, which I am fine with, as the stamping is very light.

Also any knowledge on proof marks/unit marking would be very much appreciated. The top of the buttplate has no markings, but it has some numbers in front of the sling mount.

Last questions, the back of the firing pin seems to have some sort of very black blueing/paint, hopefully the pictures do it justice, is this bubba or some sort of replacement/repair done at a arsenal/depot that we know of. I might try taking the bolt apart and soaking the firing pin in acetone to see if it comes off. Also the stock is pretty shiny, any advice on whether or not it’s been refinished, although I doubt it’s been sanded, as the marking are still very clear. I doubt I’ll do anything about the stock if it is bubba, I’d just like to be aware of it.

Thank you for reading my short essay of questions, any advice/input/answers is greatly appreciated.

 

[Loewe]

Welcome to the forum!

The stamp looks like an importer marking to me; the serial looks like it "might be" overstruck, if this is the case it could have been modified by the former state actor (Turkey, Spain, Eastern European etc..), by the importer or countless other possibilities, - the "7" looks most suspicious, but a glancing view is useless in such cases. German re-striking is possible too, hence the right receiver acceptance "seems" to show a double strike too.

Best thing is to expose the barrel serial and make a comparison, it is rare for 98a barrels to be replaced and this should settle the possible issue.

** if the bulk of the parts are mismatched to the receiver serial, it almost certainly saw service somewhere in-between German service and importation.

 

[duckyflipper]

Thank you

Welcome to the forum!

The stamp looks like an importer marking to me; the serial looks like it "might be" overstruck, if this is the case it could have been modified by the former state actor (Turkey, Spain, Eastern European etc..), by the importer or countless other possibilities, - the "7" looks most suspicious, but a glancing view is useless in such cases. German re-striking is possible too, hence the right receiver acceptance "seems" to show a double strike too.

Best thing is to expose the barrel serial and make a comparison, it is rare for 98a barrels to be replaced and this should settle the possible issue.

** if the bulk of the parts are mismatched to the receiver serial, it almost certainly saw service somewhere in-between German service and importation.

Thank you, the bolt appears to have been poorly forced match to the receiver, but the stock is a mismatch to both, but is matching to the metal hardware on it, I can provide better pictures of the bolt/other hardware if it’d be helpful.

Would the acceptance mark be the crown O or the two crown B marks?

I’ll try to get the stock off, and I’ll follow up with some pictures of the barrel serial shortly.

 

[duckyflipper]

Welcome to the forum!

The stamp looks like an importer marking to me; the serial looks like it "might be" overstruck, if this is the case it could have been modified by the former state actor (Turkey, Spain, Eastern European etc..), by the importer or countless other possibilities, - the "7" looks most suspicious, but a glancing view is useless

Thank you

Thank you, the bolt appears to have been poorly forced match to the receiver, but the stock is a mismatch to both, but is matching to the metal hardware on it, I can provide better pictures of the bolt/other hardware if it’d be helpful.

Would the acceptance mark be the crown O or the two crown B marks?

I’ll try to get the stock off, and I’ll follow up with some pictures of the barrel serial

Would this be the the serial I am looking for?

 

[Loewe]

That is not a typical German barrel, possibly Polish, but even still it isn't right or normal... Do more pictures of the barrel, it should have the same serial as the left side of the receiver, though if foreign it could have any number of markings. The only sure thing is that code is not typical "German", though it could prove to be as there is more unknown than known.

Very interesting rifle, I was expecting less mystery!

 

[duckyflipper]

I finally got the screws out of the bottom of receiver after a few hours of soaking in oil and solvent. I got the action out of the stock, and there’s some markings on the under side the barrel, and a small 2 on the bottom of the rear sight, absolutely nothing on the rest of the barrel.

 

[krukster86]

I tend to agree with Loewe. I think the barrel might be a Polish replacement, as I have seen that sort of serial number with an "E" suffix and the Z in a circle on Polish export rifles. Can you share markings from the front sight and rear sight assembly? It could be that those are Polish parts too. A German Kar.98 rear sight base would have a crown over fraktur letter on the side of the base. Additionally a German Kar.98 rear sight ladder will have those similar prooofmarks on the underside surface. A Polish one would have "lucky charm" proofs instead.

 

[biggymu]

This barrel looks like it was installed on an already very corroded receiver and rear sight.

 

[duckyflipper]

Here is some pictures of the sights, it looks like there could be a small German proof mark on the side of the base, but it’s pretty far gone. There’s some marks on the underside and spring of the rear sight.

 

[krukster86]

I will let the real experts chime in here, but the rear sight base looks Imperial German, but the rear sight ladder and slider look Polish to me. I think the front sight is Imperial German as well.

 

[duckyflipper]

Thank you, I’ve learned more about K98a rifles in the last day than I ever could’ve hoped to otherwise

 

[biggymu]

What’s going on with the hole drilled into the barrel under the rear sight? Is it a screw broken off in a threaded hole? Second pic, post #9.
Have you looked down the barrel?

 

[Loewe]

It screams Polish (barrel) and that is rarely seen. The Poles were pretty high quality in mfg and I would assume in ordnance work as well. Quite an interesting rifle, though probably would show shallow interest at auction. Possibly among the most desirable rifle out there are Polish variants, but this is most true of high end, original rifles, which are rarely seen at auction...

There are probably specialists on Polish rifles, I am not one unfortunately, probably krukster is more versed but I have not seen a similar example to this rifle before.

 

[duckyflipper]

It’s a small divot of some sort, the bore Is very good, with no signs of anything off on the inside. The pictures definitely make it seem deeper than it is, maybe a 1/16 inch at most.

 

[duckyflipper]

Thank you, it’s nice to know my first imperial rifle is a unique one.

 

[Fal Grunt]

What’s going on with the hole drilled into the barrel under the rear sight? Is it a screw broken off in a threaded hole? Second pic, post #9.
Have you looked down the barrel?

Based on the solder and the divot the barrel was originally something else and had a full banded rear sight base.

 

[OnlyMil]

Welcome! I was a lurker for a long time too and my first Imperial rifle was also a Kar98a. Peculiar rifle... Hard to suggest this rifle went anywhere but Poland after the war. What really stumps me is with the import mark. Didn't the Poles scrub all the receivers they sent to Spain? Seems unlikely this is one of those. If it's from Poland than its probably from after 1991? I find it incredibly hard to believe this rifle came to the states in it's current form (like it was in a barn for a long time). What state arsenal would re-use such a heavily corroded receiver? Seems more like a garage job to me to try to get it in shooting order/original configuration. I would say legit German & Polish parts, but not legit German or Polish handiwork.

Lots of questions on this one, certainly a head-scratcher.

 

[krukster86]

Didn't the Poles scrub all the receivers they sent to Spain?

Not to digress too much from OP's rifle, but not always. I have a 1931 Polish K29 in my collection that made its way to Spain, but retains the crest and "K29" on the siderail, but the original serial number was scrubbed off and replaced with a crude "export" re-serialization.

 

[Fal Grunt]

The Germans, and presumably the Poles reused a significant amount of items, including guns that were corroded. I suspect that their survival rate was much less because they were less desirable in the collecting community. Likewise, I know several importers (Century, Sarco, and Springfield Sporters) would strip guns by the hundreds for parts if they were in less than desirable condition.

 

[OnlyMil]

IDK I'm still pretty SUS on it. With that import mark you're definitely looking at import either from Spain in the 70s or Poland after 1991. I count the import mark in 3 different places on the receiver? I've never seen this importer before. How many companies imported stuff from Spain? I can't tell any hints at German depot work. I'm a big fan of the cartouches of that stock though.

Anyone else notice it's a Walnut stock with grasping grooves but No takedown disc? I've never heard or seen those before? No examples in the picture reference, just checked them all.

Thank you, it’s nice to know my first imperial rifle is a unique one.

Is the lower band the type with a screw going through it? I can't tell. Could you share a photo of the right side of the lower band as it sits around the stock? How about a photo of the firing proof on the underside of the bolt root while we're at it for good measure? If the lower band has a screw through it I'm totally lost and it's anyone's guess. If not, and it's a WW2 K98k lower band, then my vote is for rework outside some arsenal or depot, either here or in Poland.

Learning a lot from diving down this rabbit hole, it's driving me a little nuts lol. So much to unpack from this one rifle.