1916 Erfurt Sterngewehr "5" block with a S&H Receiver

[chrisftk]

Hi Everyone-- I'm still having fun with the new photo set-up so I'll try to keep em coming. This section has been a bit slow of late, so hopefully this might spur a little activity--or get others to invest in a photo setup

This one was passed into my care by Mike. It's a nice, honest Erfurt Stern, but the cool part is that the receiver is a "Spandau" marked S&H receiver. I've got a few Pieper receiver guns, but I sold my only other S&H (One of my Dresdens) to a member here.

Any thoughts on the barrel code? Maybe a Bohler blank finished by someone else?

Receiver 3561 5
Barrel 3561 5 (B 103 Sa)
Front Sight 61
Rear Sight Leaf 61
Sight Slider 61
Ejector Box 61
Trigger Sear 61
Front Barrel Band 61
Rear Barrel Band 61
Trigger Guard 61
Trigger Guard Screws 61,61
Floor Plate 61
Follower 61
Stock 3561
Handguard 3561
Buttplate 3561
Bayonet Lug 61
Cleaning Rod 31
Bolt Body 3561 5
Extractor 61
Safety armorer's
Cocking Piece 61
Bolt Sleeve 61
Firing Pin 61

 

[chrisftk]

More pics

 

[Loewe]

The "B" is certainly the steel provider, Bohler, Bismarckutte or BSI as this type of code (Sa) often, more often actually, have "Kr" in similar bc patterns. Unfortunately, "B" has more possibilities than "Kr"...

The thing is I need to go through the database to see how these sterngewehrs place their barrel codes, as it seems this FRS placement is a Berlin thing (Spandau, DWM, WOK) but Saxony-Dresden does seem to have done it in some cases also (not so much Erfurt 98a). Trends would give a pattern that may be helpful to judge this over a period of time, to see when & if it was changed. But these barrels are not all on sterngewehrs, some seem rebarrels, so this may be rifles that passed through Dresden or and ordnance site supplied by them.

Trends are best when applied to original manufactures, less reliable dealing with ordnance work or depots. (as the variables are so many - different times, practices and individual variables by armorers)

 

[chrisftk]

The "B" is certainly the steel provider, Bohler, Bismarckutte or BSI as this type of code (Sa) often, more often actually, have "Kr" in similar bc patterns. Unfortunately, "B" has more possibilities than "Kr"...

The thing is I need to go through the database to see how these sterngewehrs place their barrel codes, as it seems this FRS placement is a Berlin thing (Spandau, DWM, WOK) but Saxony-Dresden does seem to have done it in some cases also (not so much Erfurt 98a). Trends would give a pattern that may be helpful to judge this over a period of time, to see when & if it was changed. But these barrels are not all on sterngewehrs, some seem rebarrels, so this may be rifles that passed through Dresden or and ordnance site supplied by them.

Trends are best when applied to original manufactures, less reliable dealing with ordnance work or depots. (as the variables are so many - different times, practices and individual variables by armorers)

Thanks Paul--- Given the fact that "B" could be an aytpical shorthand for the steel supplier, could "Sa" possibly be an atypical notation for Sauer?

 

[chrisftk]

Also, I went back and looked at my other Sterngewehre and a few (3 Dresden and a Spandau) have similar a typical barrel codes.. I'm intrigued. Particularly on the "A"

 

[PrayingMantis]

I’m loving the new photo set up, Chris. Nicely done! Added to the reference.

 

[Loewe]

Thanks Paul--- Given the fact that "B" could be an aytpical shorthand for the steel supplier, could "Sa" possibly be an atypical notation for Sauer?

Typically, JPS has identified themselves as S&S on barrels, - I think Sa could be Sachsen or Saxony or Dresden specifically. The acceptance doesn't reflect a connection to JPS or Suhl generally, though this is generally speculation.

 

[Loewe]

Also, I went back and looked at my other Sterngewehre and a few (3 Dresden and a Spandau) have similar a typical barrel codes.. I'm intrigued. Particularly on the "A"

I spent some time Thursday trending Dresden sterngewehrs, very interesting, but in real terms we are dealing with such a small sample (even among observed rifles which do not show a BC) we are purely speculating. In the end we will be lucky to narrow the possibilities, but I think a sure thing is that Dresden followed a unique pattern, probably in part due to their "expedient" nature.

One thing that intrigues me is the potential connection between Saxony based ordnance organizations such as we are dealing with here (Dresden) and the Republican era HZa at Zeithan (Zn builds), - of course well documented and original Zn are so rare that this connection will probably never be explained (or even examined credibly)

When I trend out Saxon sterngewehrs I will post them here, I finished through the 1 block, but their are 5 blocks (though an entire block is missing in observations and the last blocks are meager numbers)...

**I think sterngewehr studies are possibly the most neglected of all variations (possibly because they offer the least consistency!)