1937 Mauser S/42 "Klara"

[Büenzli]

Good Day to you all,

Just today i purchased a long wanted rifle, first of all to have one in my collection. For me it matters to have a Mauser i can use, adore and what not. Im green behind my ears and was thinking maybe asking here might help? I photographed every number i could find, there are surely more hidden that i know, but can you fine gentlemen tell me something about this pretty lady?

I can provide more pictures. Since looking through some posts, i cant really tell what to look for. Its kind of overwhelming. Grateful for any information i can get.

 

[Guillaume d'Orange]

Hi and welcome, are you from Germany ?
Have a look here for other S/42 1937:

Picture Reference Index

COPYRIGHT NOTICE: The pictures posted are the sole property of the K98k Forum Member who posted them. Any use of these photographs other than reference here without the express permission of the K98k Forum Member will be treated as a violation of U.S. Copyright law. This thread is an index of...

www.k98kforum.com

You will see the level of detail needed to authenticate these pre-war rifles.
What I can tell is that the serial number on the stock A18317 has not been applied at the Mauser Oberndorf factory (as far as I know)

 

[Büenzli]

Hi and welcome, are you from Germany ?
Have a look here for other S/42 1937:

Picture Reference Index

COPYRIGHT NOTICE: The pictures posted are the sole property of the K98k Forum Member who posted them. Any use of these photographs other than reference here without the express permission of the K98k Forum Member will be treated as a violation of U.S. Copyright law. This thread is an index of...

www.k98kforum.com

You will see the level of detail needed to authenticate these pre-war rifles.
What I can tell is that the serial number on the stock A18317 has not been applied at the Mauser Oberndorf factory (as far as I know)

I am Swiss.

I might be a bit short sighted, completely overlooked this reference index.

And yes, i assumed the number on the Stock, the A-No, wasnt from Mauser itself. Confused me a little. Even with little knowledge that stood out like a sore thumb.

Ill check out the index and see if i can find more places. The wood itself is worn heavily so finding stamps could be tricky.

EDIT: Thank you for the header, forgot to write that

 

[Mauser4me]

Not sure what your level of understanding is, so I’m going to start low. You have what looks to be a mostly matching 1937 mauser K98. S/42 is the factory code for the mauser factory. If it had a different code S/147, S/147/G, S/243, etc it could be made by several different factories (Erma, JP sauer, etc). Meaning not all K98’s were made by ‘Mauser’ the company. But of course the K98 is a Mauser design. Similar to how the colt 1911 design is made by many other companies than just colt.

That being said, all of the *pictured* numbers look to be matching except for the rear action screw. The number on the left side of the stock, I am not sure the originality, but was not applied from the factory. Additionally, it looks like some markings were added above the serial number on the barrel. Could you posted a photo of that? I had an S/42 1937 K98 with post-war nitro proof markings in the same place. Nitro proofing is where the government makes people have their rifles tested to be safe to shoot by firing a few over-powered rounds through the rifle.

Overall a good piece. Not sure what you paid but if the price was right it’s something I’d be happy to own. More photos can help shed more light on the overall story.

 

[Büenzli]

Not sure what your level of understanding is, so I’m going to start low. You have what looks to be a mostly matching 1937 mauser K98. S/42 is the factory code for the mauser factory. If it had a different code S/147, S/147/G, S/243, etc it could be made by several different factories (Erma, JP sauer, etc). Meaning not all K98’s were made by ‘Mauser’ the company. But of course the K98 is a Mauser design. Similar to how the colt 1911 design is made by many other companies than just colt.

That being said, all of the *pictured* numbers look to be matching except for the rear action screw. The number on the left side of the stock, I am not sure the originality, but was not applied from the factory. Additionally, it looks like some markings were added above the serial number on the barrel. Could you posted a photo of that? I had an S/42 1937 K98 with post-war nitro proof markings in the same place. Nitro proofing is where the government makes people have their rifles tested to be safe to shoot by firing a few over-powered rounds through the rifle.

Overall a good piece. Not sure what you paid but if the price was right it’s something I’d be happy to own. More photos can help shed more light on the overall story.

I can learn, im eager to aquire more knowledge about stuff i own.

I already figured out the 42 is for Mauser itself. I did a little peeking around the web, just was overwhelmed by all the different info.

Here is a photo of the markings (i hope) you mean

Right now im looking through the index Guillaume referenced...

Edit: What would your rough estimate say is a "fair" price?
Of course im looking at more stamps etc, but the few places where they should be "hint" at being stamped. Ill see if i can get a good picture
Also will strip the rifle, but not today im afraid. Posting more when i have more

 

[Mauser4me]

Yes so that marking above the serial #7761 is a nitro proof that is evidence the rifle never left Europe and stayed in Germany until at least 1952. The eagle over ‘N’ is the nitro proof mark of the German authority, not sure exactly what ‘1178’ indicates, but the little antler symbol indicates the nitro proofing was done at Ulm. If you google ‘German nitro proofs’ you’ll find good info. Generally speaking, any post-war markings decrease collector value.

From what I’ve seen & read the European market is much different than the American market. That being said, if I saw it in the US, based on my EXPERIENCE (some members on here routinely lowball new members for some reason), it would probably be somewhere in the ~$1500-$1800 range for an online sale on such sites like gunbroker. Especially in the current milsurp market. Here on the forum or at a local show, lower than that. Wider audience means bigger price tags & vice versa. if I was looking to buy it in an auction my mind would say: $0.01-$999 a steal, $1000-$1299 a good deal, $1300-$1600 I bought it for what’s it’s worth, $1600+ this market is crazy. Note that things are very often selling for more than they’re worth, which is why I say $1600 value max but $1800 isn’t unrealistic to expect as a sale price. But that’s all MY opinion based on my EXPERIENCE.

If you have any other specific questions let us know, otherwise I’m not sure what more general info you’re looking for.

 

[heavy_mech]

Hi and welcome, are you from Germany ?

What I can tell is that the serial number on the stock A18317 has not been applied at the Mauser Oberndorf factory (as far as I know)

Agreed. Also I see the added markings above the receiver serial number. Thoughts on the numbers on the keel?

Also added proofs on the barrel and receiver.

 

[Büenzli]

Yes so that marking above the serial #7761 is a nitro proof that is evidence the rifle never left Europe and stayed in Germany until at least 1952. The eagle over ‘N’ is the nitro proof mark of the German authority, not sure exactly what ‘1178’ indicates, but the little antler symbol indicates the nitro proofing was done at Ulm. If you google ‘German nitro proofs’ you’ll find good info. Generally speaking, any post-war markings decrease collector value.

From what I’ve seen & read the European market is much different than the American market. That being said, if I saw it in the US, based on my EXPERIENCE (some members on here routinely lowball new members for some reason), it would probably be somewhere in the ~$1500-$1800 range for an online sale on such sites like gunbroker. Especially in the current milsurp market. Here on the forum or at a local show, lower than that. Wider audience means bigger price tags & vice versa. if I was looking to buy it in an auction my mind would say: $0.01-$999 a steal, $1000-$1299 a good deal, $1300-$1600 I bought it for what’s it’s worth, $1600+ this market is crazy. Note that things are very often selling for more than they’re worth, which is why I say $1600 value max but $1800 isn’t unrealistic to expect as a sale price. But that’s all MY opinion based on my EXPERIENCE.

If you have any other specific questions let us know, otherwise I’m not sure what more general info you’re looking for.

You have already given me a lot of info, for that i thank you profusely. Seriously, thank you. The Three of you.

I will definetly strip it, this has sparked more interest in me to see if really all numbers that are on this rifle match. The only thing that kind of... irritates me is that one number on the bolt, respectively the safety lever
seems to be missing. Could this be because it was replaced? Since both pinned Links under the picture reference Index show pictures where the number is there.

And Price wise i seem to have gotten a good deal if going after your experience (US that is). I paid, using the exchange rate of now, just around 850$. Since the value of the Dollar right now equals our Swiss Franc.
Can't really compare it to other examples, since this is the only one ive seen in a longer time up for sale through the dealer. And the dealer is pretty much a big, if not the biggest in the region.

Definetly will post whatever i find after the strip here if yall dont mind?

 

[heavy_mech]

$850 would definitely be a steal in the US market IMHO. Love to see more when you take it apart.

 

[Mauser4me]

Yes in my opinion you got a very good deal for ~$850 for that rifle by US standards. However, I know that my family in Norway has like 90% income tax (not exaggerating), so perhaps $850 for a rifle there is just too much. Really depends on the local culture.

So the safety is totally unmarked? In that case, yes, it was replaced at some point.
It would definitely have a serial number matching the receiver #. However, it is not TOO difficult to find armorer replacement safeties. Those are original parts that were not serial numbered. Those are highly sought-after for restorations.

But of course post however much you’d like! I’ll chime in what I can.

 

[Büenzli]

Okay, finally back at the table. Temperatures have been getting higher here, so i got myself to try and disassemble the lady completely. She has been throwing a hissy fit during the first attempt...

Reckon she hasnt been taken apart in years or even the last 10 years. Just "cleaned and maintained".

The barrel itself shows some wear and tear, maybe even some surface rust. Dont think this will affect the iron all too much, now wont it? Dont see any cracks, tears, just this surface and a wee little of
rust. If thats enough to make the rifle not usable (just superstitious about this stuff), that would be a shocker to me but asking costs nothing.

Regarding the hissy fit: She hated getting the magazine assembly removed. One Screw seemed like the previous owner, or one of them, used a torque wrench to fully jam the big screw in. Because i had to use
one to get it loose, being careful not to nick at the screw. The spring at the band again seemed like it hasnt been moved in ages, also needed to use some mechanical force. Of course with a towel in between (since using a vice because it didnt budge). No damage during the process, had to clean out a little bit of wood debris from inside, alongside old grease.

Other than that she was nice to me. Numbers wise, i kind of expected the upper stock not to have a matching number, but the lower half luckily was. Other indicators such as symbols/stamps are worn away it seems.
Already concluded that since the only thing i found was the semi visible eagle on the rear of the stock.

I was thinking of using classic "military" grade grease for the gun. Thoughts on it? I do have other lubrication, but the thick paste seems fitting to provide the lass what she needs.

 

[mowzerluvr]

If you'd like. I can look through my screws to see if I have an e/63 #61?

 

[Büenzli]

If you'd like. I can look through my screws to see if I have an e/63 #61?

That is very kind of you. But not needed, really appreciate the offer tho.

 

[Guillaume d'Orange]

Okay, finally back at the table. Temperatures have been getting higher here, so i got myself to try and disassemble the lady completely. She has been throwing a hissy fit during the first attempt...

Reckon she hasnt been taken apart in years or even the last 10 years. Just "cleaned and maintained".

The barrel itself shows some wear and tear, maybe even some surface rust. Dont think this will affect the iron all too much, now wont it? Dont see any cracks, tears, just this surface and a wee little of
rust. If thats enough to make the rifle not usable (just superstitious about this stuff), that would be a shocker to me but asking costs nothing.

Regarding the hissy fit: She hated getting the magazine assembly removed. One Screw seemed like the previous owner, or one of them, used a torque wrench to fully jam the big screw in. Because i had to use
one to get it loose, being careful not to nick at the screw. The spring at the band again seemed like it hasnt been moved in ages, also needed to use some mechanical force. Of course with a towel in between (since using a vice because it didnt budge). No damage during the process, had to clean out a little bit of wood debris from inside, alongside old grease.

Other than that she was nice to me. Numbers wise, i kind of expected the upper stock not to have a matching number, but the lower half luckily was. Other indicators such as symbols/stamps are worn away it seems.
Already concluded that since the only thing i found was the semi visible eagle on the rear of the stock.

I was thinking of using classic "military" grade grease for the gun. Thoughts on it? I do have other lubrication, but the thick paste seems fitting to provide the lass what she needs.

Although the handguard is not matching, that’s still a nice rifle. Given the wear of it and the walnut look, it may have been a spare part. The barrel, stock and bolt are original, that’s what matters the most.

 

[Büenzli]

Although the handguard is not matching, that’s still a nice rifle. Given the wear of it and the walnut look, it may have been a spare part. The barrel, stock and bolt are original, that’s what matters the most.

Spare Part or not, it still looks good to me. A little dream come true if im honest. And a great addition to the collection.

Now though... it might not be the last of its bretheren to join the fray, but for now the Lady should quell the thirst quite good.

Gave her a nice de-grease, checked if everything is good down the barrel.



Next is a visit to a shooting range. Already got a packet of rounds ready...

 

[Guillaume d'Orange]

Beware about cleaning it, the rule is don't do something that cannot be undone. As for antiquities, the patina is a big part of the value.
Ballistol is a good product, as it is basically the oil that the Wehrmacht used.
Depending on the condition of your barrel, don't expect the same accuracy as a modern rifle. Accuracy is around 3.5 MOA (if I remember correctly)

 

[Büenzli]

Degrease i meant the mechanical parts. Dont worry, the wood is gonna stay as is. Too risky for my taste to go fubar

As for the barrel and bolt itself, i took a peek down the barrel first to check if anything is off before doing my stuff. Previous owner/gunshop clearly conserved
after cleaning it. But other than keeping the mechanical parts greased and well working i didnt do anything. Rifling is used but in good condition for its age.

Heck, its even better than the K31 in my collection. And that rifle is younger and equally used, on its second barrel (competitively).

And of course, the accuracy is 1937-ish, depending on the usage of everything.

 

[Telperion]

Grüezi from Bavaria!

This is a nice gun! It's one of the shipments of Mausers from Germany to Portugal. The first batch was taken from the production line and called "m/937". The next batch had some improvements over the German design and was called "m/937 A", whereas a third batch was shipped around 1942 and called "m/937 B". The 2nd and the 3rd batch had their own serial number range (PREFIX C, D, E and in the 40ies F, G, H). The first ones shipped had the German serial number system (naturally, as they were intended for the German Army); the serial number ranges for the shipments to Portugal began, more or less, in the "i" block (SUFFIX!) in 1937 and went down to the "q" block. So your "o" block is such a typical Portuguese gun. The additional number "A ..." is the Portuguese number; normally a Portuguese crest is above it, but it's faded away here due to age and wear. (Some 1936 produced rifles can also be found among those Portuguese guns; they too went to Portugal presumably straight from the factory).
All those guns from Portugal found their way back to Germany in the 70ies and 80ies when they were imported by two big trading companies, Frankonia in Würzburg (Bavaria) and Friedrich Hebsacker in Überlingen am Bodensee (Lake Constance, Baden Württemberg). The guns had to be re-proofed (Beschuß) as the German Military Beschusszeichen of that time (30ies) were not valid, so the antler steps into the arena here. The additional mark above the serial means, as one of my colleagues already said: Beschuss by proofing house Ulm (Baden Württemberg!; antler) with nitro powder in November 1978.
As most of the Portuguese mausers had the same service history and were stored under very similar circumstances, the majority of them look the same; even the rust pits are on the same location on most of them. What is not that uncommon is that the screws have been swapped, or more important, sometimes parts like the safety were unnumbered and without proof marks. So I wouldn't worry about this one at all!

many greetings

T

 

[Guillaume d'Orange]

Grüezi from Bavaria!

This is a nice gun! It's one of the shipments of Mausers from Germany to Portugal. The first batch was taken from the production line and called "m/937". The next batch had some improvements over the German design and was called "m/937 A", whereas a third batch was shipped around 1942 and called "m/937 B". The 2nd and the 3rd batch had their own serial number range (PREFIX C, D, E and in the 40ies F, G, H). The first ones shipped had the German serial number system (naturally, as they were intended for the German Army); the serial number ranges for the shipments to Portugal began, more or less, in the "i" block (SUFFIX!) in 1937 and went down to the "q" block. So your "o" block is such a typical Portuguese gun. The additional number "A ..." is the Portuguese number; normally a Portuguese crest is above it, but it's faded away here due to age and wear. (Some 1936 produced rifles can also be found among those Portuguese guns; they too went to Portugal presumably straight from the factory).
All those guns from Portugal found their way back to Germany in the 70ies and 80ies when they were imported by two big trading companies, Frankonia in Würzburg (Bavaria) and Friedrich Hebsacker in Überlingen am Bodensee (Lake Constance, Baden Württemberg). The guns had to be re-proofed (Beschuß) as the German Military Beschusszeichen of that time (30ies) were not valid, so the antler steps into the arena here. The additional mark above the serial means, as one of my colleagues already said: Beschuss by proofing house Ulm (Baden Württemberg!; antler) with nitro powder in November 1978.
As most of the Portuguese mausers had the same service history and were stored under very similar circumstances, the majority of them look the same; even the rust pits are on the same location on most of them. What is not that uncommon is that the screws have been swapped, or more important, sometimes parts like the safety were unnumbered and without proof marks. So I wouldn't worry about this one at all!

many greetings

T

Vielen dank Telperion for the informative post.
I suspected a Portuguese Mauser, but could not tell for sure.
I may add some footnotes in my Vol I.

 

[Büenzli]

Grüezi from Bavaria!

This is a nice gun! It's one of the shipments of Mausers from Germany to Portugal. The first batch was taken from the production line and called "m/937". The next batch had some improvements over the German design and was called "m/937 A", whereas a third batch was shipped around 1942 and called "m/937 B". The 2nd and the 3rd batch had their own serial number range (PREFIX C, D, E and in the 40ies F, G, H). The first ones shipped had the German serial number system (naturally, as they were intended for the German Army); the serial number ranges for the shipments to Portugal began, more or less, in the "i" block (SUFFIX!) in 1937 and went down to the "q" block. So your "o" block is such a typical Portuguese gun. The additional number "A ..." is the Portuguese number; normally a Portuguese crest is above it, but it's faded away here due to age and wear. (Some 1936 produced rifles can also be found among those Portuguese guns; they too went to Portugal presumably straight from the factory).
All those guns from Portugal found their way back to Germany in the 70ies and 80ies when they were imported by two big trading companies, Frankonia in Würzburg (Bavaria) and Friedrich Hebsacker in Überlingen am Bodensee (Lake Constance, Baden Württemberg). The guns had to be re-proofed (Beschuß) as the German Military Beschusszeichen of that time (30ies) were not valid, so the antler steps into the arena here. The additional mark above the serial means, as one of my colleagues already said: Beschuss by proofing house Ulm (Baden Württemberg!; antler) with nitro powder in November 1978.
As most of the Portuguese mausers had the same service history and were stored under very similar circumstances, the majority of them look the same; even the rust pits are on the same location on most of them. What is not that uncommon is that the screws have been swapped, or more important, sometimes parts like the safety were unnumbered and without proof marks. So I wouldn't worry about this one at all!

many greetings

T

Do wird ja...

This explains everything. Wasnt expecting a Portugese Export.

This puts me at ease regarding the rust pits, since i wasnt sure how one would get these if it wasnt for damp storage.
Wasnt really expecting to get a that detailed history of it, but Mauser is Mauser (to me).

Since i purchased this in Pfungen (close to Winterthur), it would make perfect sense that it came either from Überlingen or Würzburg via proofing at Ulm.

Its amazing how far these firearms went...

Probably gonna get more of em if i find another sometime soon

Thanks a lot for the superb info T!