1941 F-block Portuguese Rifle: German Issue

[stahlhelm1976]

Gents,

Was at the Baltimore show yesterday and picked up this F-block rifle early in the show. The rifle is SN F2827 and it is matching down to the screws. The rifle is eagle-655 proofed in all of the expected places. It shows hard use and wear with most of the blue worn off.

The solid walnut stock is Heer proofed along with two eagle-655 proofs just below the bolt takedown disk. There is no Portuguese crest stamped into the opposite side and it is serial numbered matching externally and in both the hand-guard & stock barrel channels. The rifle is counterbored at the muzzle but other than that is perfect. There are no import marks on this rifle.

I know it is very difficult to ascertain for sure if a rifle was German issued and wanted to share this piece with the forum. It looks heavily worn and just has that look. Any thoughts on whether it was german issue?

Thanks guys...!

 

[Pisgah]

Without either legitimate bringback papers or some sign of German use like a rebarrel, etc., there is really no way to be sure. I sold a Norwegian reworked Portuguese contract rifle a couple of years ago, and it had the Portuguese crest on the left of the buttstock, so it is not like that marking had to be put there by the Portuguese. I'm not sure what its absence means.

 

[stahlhelm1976]

It would be interesting to see if other examples of these F-block rifles all had crests applied to the stocks. I have not seen as many of these earlier examples, but all of the later G & H block rifles that I have come across with the 135 proofs have a deeply struck crest in the stock on the left side (they also tend to be in excellent to unissued condition). This is the first example that I came across without it and it's absence was interesting. I was also intrigued by the heavily used condition an wear on the rifle as well as the counterbore.

Do most observed F-block rifles have the crest? I checked the serial number study that Craig started and the crest was not one of the data points recorded.

 

[Pisgah]

I have seen the crests lightly struck, worn, and occasionally partially sanded away, but can't ever remember seeing one missing completely from an original stock. Can you take some close ups of the stock serial numbers and the left of the stock between the takedown disk and buttplate where the crest would have been?

 

[stahlhelm1976]

Per your request, attached are some detailed stock shots of the serial numbers in the barrel channels as well as some pictures of area where the crest would normally be struck. There is no evidence of sanding or a lightly struck crest at all. I also included a shot of the matching buttplate.

 

[Pisgah]

External stock serial number?

 

[stahlhelm1976]

External Serial Number.

 

[Pisgah]

Well, it fits the profile of German-used:matching, well-used but not abused and obviously carefully maintained. I don't know what to make of the lack of the Portuguese crest on the left of the stock and am afraid to make too much of it. I have an import-marked example which is similar in terms of wear, so the signs of use don't necessarily mean anything either. If I had to say one way or the other I would say your rifle probably stayed in Germany, unfortunately still just a guess.

 

[hrvatski]

Is that cross on the buttplace of Portuguese origin?

Ski

 

[Pisgah]

Is that cross on the buttplace of Portuguese origin?

Ski

I believe that every Portuguese contract rifle has the cross on the buttplate regardless of where the rifle ended up.

 

[stahlhelm1976]

Thanks Pisgah...I guess there is just no way to definitively say one way or the other..I don't have a Portuguese example in my collection so it will fill a gap in the collection regardless of where it went. I do feel that the lack of a Portuguese crest on the stock & absence of an import stamp are very strong indications of German issue.

It is a nice rifle and in exactly the condition I like them, field issued but not abused.

 

[S/42]

Actually, the Port. crest IS on the butt - it's VERY light, but I can see it as will you when I highlight it as shown below. It has a largish rectangular ding over part of it. I can actually see quite a bit of the detail of the crest - some leaf points, some of the inner circles... I have altered the contrast a little to make it more apparent, but I spotted them quite easily on the original images posted here.

 

[stahlhelm1976]

Vulch, you're right..I took it out into the sunlight there do appear to be very faint remnants of a crest..much lower on the stock than I would have expected. The later 135 proofed examples have that deep cartouche, never saw one that faint.

Anyone have thoughts on the counterboring? Could this have been period done? I did a forum search on counterbores and found this very interesting thread by bruce:

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread...8-now-wherabouts-unkown&highlight=counterbore

Seems the Germans definitely were counterboring rifles and the counterboring on this rifle is definitely not recently done...the bore was dark and covered in crud...took me an hour of running patches to get in clean.

 

[S/42]

I have owned a LOT of Portuguese rifles - from the Kropatschek, M904 (in 6.5) M904/39, M937 and M937A's... none had a counterbore, so I am not sure if the Portuguese would have done it.

Russians seemed to have counter-bored a fair percentage of the RC K98's - common as heck actually. Though, this is not an RC.

Perhaps a gunsmith within the past 70 years has done it.

I don't think we will ever know.

 

[tsmgguy]

If I'm seeing it correctly, this rifle has the "eagle H" stock acceptance mark, meaning that it was pulled from Portuguese contract production and accepted by the German Army. Rifles actually shipped to Portugal did not have this marking. This is in photo #9, just below the disassembly disc.

 

[S/42]

Icorrect. ALL the Portuguese contract Mausers have the Eagle H. From the M937 (that was not even a German used rifle - well, very LITTLE anyway) to the more common M937A (also called the M941). They ALL had it, as it was part of the manufacturing/acceptance process. EVERY SINGLE Portuguese M937/937A I have had, from well used to flat out new out of the zinc box has the waffenamts, as does EVERY SINGLE ONE MADE.

 

[S/42]

F block M937A, imported into Australia with the rest of the used or new M937A's in the 1970's.

NOT German used. Definitely Eagle H marked, but again, ALL of them did as it was a Nazi era inspection thing

 

[S/42]

M937A, H block, NEW, shown with a 1937 S/42:

 

[S/42]

I got more

G block M937A and another G block M937A (both with Portuguese crest on left side)

 

[S/42]

Another unissued M937A. Single waffenamt on stock evident. Sold this one WAY TOO CHEAP.