41 Luger

[Gerst]

A friend of mine has a 41 Luger with 655 Waffenamt stamps serial number 4400, all matching, with two matching mags. The top of the receiver does not have byf but an engraved WM in pretty letters.

Can anyone tell me something about this weapon?

 

[mauser1908]

Photos would help. When I hear two matching mags on a 1941 dated gun I want to tell you to run. Type 4 Bakelite mags were the norm after the ‘o’ block. So only super early 1941 dated pistols have numbered mags, with the exception being police guns. The whole gun sounds weird. Sounds like it might have a scrubbed up DWM toggle on it. Are these the letters you’re describing?

 

[Gerst]

thats the pistol. It has to be early given the serial number doesn’t it? It is a vet bring-back. Nothing goofy about it. Nothing has been done to it.

 

[mauser1908]

thats the pistol. It has to be early given the serial number doesn’t it? It is a bet bring-back. Nothing goofy about it. Nothing has been done to it.

No, Mauser made lugers were serialized progressively, the date changed during the ‘n’ block which ran all the way through to the end of the alphabet, through the no suffix, and the ‘a’ block. There’s overlap with 42 dated pistols but 4400 would be at the end of 1941. The toggle isn’t original, someone got lucky with the number and added a DWM toggle to it.

 

[Warrior1354]

Gerst I would really take Sam's advise here he's been in the Luger collecting field for quite some time and has studied these pistols extensively. He's very knowledgeable and has helped me over the years with what to look for. He was very helpful when I purchased that 1914 DWM back in March. I would walk away there are many nice P08 pistols out there. I'll be honest I have seen many Lugers that were being sold as a vet bring back over years. From humped up pieces, to Russian dipped imports, etc.

 

[Gerst]

It isn’t for sale. It’s in my friend’s collection. He has many items from all over the world, not organized. I just happened to visit him with one of my rifles and he brought out the Luger and some bayonets for my opinion.

i may try to take photos. He has fired it a number of times. The pistol appears to be all original.

 

[mrfarb]

Could be some type of depot repair.

 

[mauser1908]

Gerst I would really take Sam's advise here he's been in the Luger collecting field for quite some time and has studied these pistols extensively. He's very knowledgeable and has helped me over the years with what to look for. He was very helpful when I purchased that 1914 DWM back in March. I would walk away there are many nice P08 pistols out there. I'll be honest I have seen many Lugers that were being sold as a vet bring back over years. From humped up pieces, to Russian dipped imports, etc.

Thanks for the kind words, I’m by no means an authority on this stuff. The gun easily could be a depot rework like Mike suggested. I tend to be guarded and very cautious with Lugers due to the decades of funny business this field is known for.

 

[Gunrunner]

I have a t block byf 41 black widow with one matching mag that I got from the vets son and I have another byf 41 rig in the u block(which was the last block with numbered magazines) with two matching mags and paperwork that I got from the vet himself.

Chuck

 

[Gerst]

No, Mauser made lugers were serialized progressively, the date changed during the ‘n’ block which ran all the way through to the end of the alphabet, through the no suffix, and the ‘a’ block. There’s overlap with 42 dated pistols but 4400 would be at the end of 1941. The toggle isn’t original, someone got lucky with the number and added a DWM toggle to it.

To which “toggle” are you referring? I have not posted any pictures.

 

[mauser1908]

To which “toggle” are you referring? I have not posted any pictures.

I posted a photo of a DWM toggle and you acknowledged it looked like it.

 

[Gerst]

I guess I don’t know what a toggle is. I thought you were talking about some kind of switch. You were talking about the maker’s mark engraved on top of the pistol? Was this mark only placed on early guns making my friend’s pistol a rework of some kind?

 

[RyanE]

I guess I don’t know what a toggle is. I thought you were talking about some kind of switch. You were talking about the maker’s mark engraved on top of the pistol? Was this mark only placed on early guns making my friend’s pistol a rework of some kind?

Yes, the marking on the top is on the toggle (the linkage that moves in the receiver). Your is apparently marked by DWM which ended Luger production in 1930. Your receiver is from Mauser in 1941, so its either a mismatch or possibly a rework. We would need to see good photos.

 

[Gerst]

I will try to go over and take some pics. Any areas in particular?

 

[Gerst]

I visited my buddy who has the 41 Luger. I brought over my 1871 Mauser and he showed my his Springfield “trap door” rifle, 1878 I believe.

First of all only one magazine is numbered, but they are metal, they hold a magnet.

Here are some photos. He has never taken it apart

 

[Gerst]

One more

 

[RyanE]

Its an East German rework. Poorly stamped import marking on the right side of the receiver and what looks like a defaced (as was sadly typical) VoPo/KVP sunburst just behind the '4400'.

 

[Gerst]

So this was a WWI pistol reworked during WWII reworked a second time by the DDR. Does the serial number come from WWII, WWII or from the Volkspolizei?

What’s it worth?

 

[RyanE]

Hard to tell honestly. Frame serial looks like its probably original (pic is too blurry to be sure), but the receiver SN is definitely DDR as are most of the other SNs.

I don't know what these are selling for, but value is kinda low for these especially with the VoPo markings removed. Typical, but would bring more if not defaced. Matching mag (DDR applied) is a nice bonus though and condition isn't nice for what it is. Maybe 700? I'd like to find a nice one one day.

 

[Gerst]

Interestingly I lived in East Germsny, then the RussianZone, until my two aunts sneaked me out over the barbed-wire entangled border on a sled at night to the American Zone. My mother was sick. They smuggled penicillin over to help her and eventually got her out two. While all this was going on, my dad was in a French POW camp. He wasn’t released until 1948.