8mm Mauser Ammo - Ventura Munitions

[Jethro897]

Hi Everyone,

If this is the wrong place for this, let me know. I didn't see an ammo-specific category, but am happy to repost elsewhere if it would be more appropriate.

Does anyone have experience with this 8mm mauser ammunition from Ventura Munitions?
https://www.venturamunitions.com/8x57-8mm-mauser-is-197-5gr-fmj-brass-cased-ammo-20-rounds/

I'm mostly concerned with whether it is actually corrosive or not. I emailed Ventura asking whether it was corrosive and who the manufacturer was and/or what was the date of production and received the following:
"1. The rounds are loaded with non-corrosive primers and powder.
2. This is manufactured recently in a modern commercial factory in Russia. Unfortunately there is no leading data to who the manufacturer is."

So according to them it isn't corrosive, but being made in some unknown factory in Russia threw up a red flag. I was looking for any info you guys might have if you've used it before. I ordered a few boxes and just plan on treating it as corrosive until I hear otherwise. It is a pretty good deal for something loaded close to the velocity of the s.S Patrone.

I can provide pictures of the box and case head if that would help. Case head appears unmarked in the few seconds I looked at it, though.

 

[DaveDavis]

I would think non corrosive primers are the standard today no matter who produces the ammo. If you are not confident then merely clean the bore with a little soapy water before you clean it as you normally do.

 

[WilliM1940]

It is interesting. Sure looks like the s.S. projectile.

Wonder if made with old German equipment, if a true German profiled bullet they definitely could carve out a market.

 

[usbeef]

It is newly manufactured ammunition so I can't imagine any possibility that it is corrosive. I would clean my rifle after every range trip anyways.

 

[Jethro897]

It is interesting. Sure looks like the s.S. projectile.

Wonder if made with old German equipment, if a true German profiled bullet they definitely could carve out a market.

That was my thinking, too. I'll have to report back with how it shoots. I've noticed an alarming lack of ammo loaded as hot as the old German heavy S stuff, so it would be good to have something reasonably priced. So far I've only seen Hornaday and Sellier & Bellot seem to, and it's expensive. I wish PPU would dial their load up to something reasonable. The good thing is I'm accumulating brass to reload either way.

 

[chasdev]

If those specs are correct it sounds like a great deal (for modern ammo)..
Testing for corrosive primers is pretty easy, just knock down a round or two and shoot off the empty shells toward a piece of mild steel and watch what happens over a few weeks, and of course clean the bore after shooting.
Surprising how much soot and carbon are left behind from just the primer going POP.

 

[haak48]

7,9 Russia

This ammo was imported last year. All we have examined has been pre-WW2 German manufacture. The cartridges have been disassembled, de-primed of the original corrosive primer, and the re-primed with a new non-corrosive cap. The original powder and bullet are then reloaded into the case. The green primer seal still remains on some cases and the removal of the three stab primer crimp is quite evident. Most cases have no head stamp indicating possible Romanian 1939 ammo. They must have a bunch of this stuff still remaining to make this profitable. Velocity is a little slower than German spec and I don't know if the primers are up to spec for auto-loading rifles. Interesting development. I wish they would just send us the real stuff. JH

 

[nirvana]

An industrial scale operation to strip and reprime 1930s dated 8mm ammo? That's bizarre, but also impressive...

Are the cases brass, washed, lacquered, mixed?

 

[haak48]

An industrial scale operation to strip and reprime 1930s dated 8mm ammo? That's bizarre, but also impressive...

Are the cases brass, washed, lacquered, mixed?

All brass cases AFAIK. This type of operation is not as uncommon as one might think. Here in the USA, TALON INC. was allowed to pull down and reload USGI ammunition from WW2 forward, in most calibers. More recently, a large amount of French made .50 Cal. M-33 was imported with bad primers. A couple of different companies pulled it all down, installed new CCI primers, reloaded the original components, and finally re-linked all the ammo and returned it to the importer. Cheaper than buying new. JH

 

[Jethro897]

Update: Pictures of the Ventura Stuff

Here are some pictures of the case head and markings on the box. The only marking on the casing is actually along the side, which I've never really seen before. Some markings on the box that might be a place of manufacture, I don't speak Russian, though. Maybe one of you guys will recognize the markings.

 

[2nd amend law]

If anybody is doing the re-primer for 7,92 kurz let me know.

 

[Jethro897]

Range Report: Proceed with Caution

I finally got a chance to test a few boxes of this ammo out. I fired 35 rounds, and it shoots high, like I expected, because it's closer to the original loading than the PPU i've been shooting. I have an m24/52c which is sighted at 300m at the lowest. Once I figured out the hold off, this is a damn nice shooting round. I've heard the primers are hard and might need more than one strike, but every one detonated the first time. I did encounter two problems, which is why I stopped at 35 rounds instead of the 60 I planned on.

Two of the cases split on the side. Picture is below. This was in my last stripper clip, so they both came from the same box. When I saw this, I stopped and inspected the bolt locking lugs and chamber. Everything seemed good, but I was already nearly out of time so I packed up.

I know these are re manufactured s.S.Patrone rounds, so they are old 1930s and the Brass has to be brittle. Is this a catastrophic enough failure that I should stop using this ammo, or is this just part in parcel of firing old rounds. I didn't notice any problems in firing these, no gas in my face, etc. The only thing I noticed was one was hard to close on, which is something I won't do again(bad habit from mostly shooting surplus mosins). Anyone have thoughts on if this ammo is safe to continue using?

 

[haak48]

IMO, while a little disconcerting, season cracking in the side wall of the cases is fairly common with older German ammo from this era. Cracks that are lower, or through the web or case head are another matter. Any pictures of the fired primers? As far as tight closing on the loaded round, I have encountered a number of re barreled Yugo rifles that will not even accept a "GO" gauge, and close quite tight on any correct cartridge. Thanks, JH

 

[smgguns]

Hi All,

Ran across this thread and thought I would share. One of our customers ran onto this ammo some time ago and gave a report. I was dissapointed as just like everyone else I am always on the lookout for less expensive, good, clean, commercial ammo to test fire with - gets expensive.... Anyway, here is his report:

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:16 AM
Subject: FG42 - ammo report

Hey there Mr. Rick, its .........

https://www.venturamunitions.com/russian-8mm-mauser-is-197-5gr-bi-metal-fmj-ammo-20-rounds/

I recently inquired about the use of this ammunition in my FG42 - and you mentioned you had not used it.

I purchased several boxes and wanted to give you a quick report.

The rounds eject about 45 degrees to the right and to about 3 feet from the rifle on the lowest gas setting. Brass showed no deformations on the case head, the rim, or anywhere alone the cylinder itself (with the exception of the dent the deflector makes)

There were no hangups, jams, failures to fire etc.

Recoil was very gentle, the I couldnt feel the bolt hitting the back of the rifle.

Inspecting all the parts, there were no wear marks or any signs of the brass causing issues.

Alright - now time for the bad news.

This brass is soft... very soft. I dont know if it is because they dont properly heat treat it or polish it smoothly but even in my bolt action rifles I got brass shavings everywhere.

After about 2 magazines, my 42 became very difficult to charge, and the reason for it was brass shavings were in the chamber and behind the bolt. What I would do is fire a magazine - clean the chamber - and repeat. Doing this kept the rifle running smooth as silk.

The bolt action rifles used were kar98ks --> and as I stated even they shaved off brass just by cycling.

I dont know if there is a solution to the brass shaving, I may experiment with polishing the brass prior to my next range trip to see if that helps to smoothen things up.
And lastly - my goodness that FG42 runs like a dream!

 

[Jethro897]

IMO, while a little disconcerting, season cracking in the side wall of the cases is fairly common with older German ammo from this era. Cracks that are lower, or through the web or case head are another matter. Any pictures of the fired primers? As far as tight closing on the loaded round, I have encountered a number of re barreled Yugo rifles that will not even accept a "GO" gauge, and close quite tight on any correct cartridge. Thanks, JH

I've attached a picture of the fired primers. I don't have anything to punch them out with currently. Would you say that this ammunition is safe to fire (to the rifle and user) with proper eye protection, or is this something that should be avoided? This stuff ran really well other than these two issues, so I was hoping it would make a cheap go-to. Maybe I should have the headspace re-checked if you think that might be an issue.

 

[Jethro897]

Hi All,

Ran across this thread and thought I would share. One of our customers ran onto this ammo some time ago and gave a report. I was dissapointed as just like everyone else I am always on the lookout for less expensive, good, clean, commercial ammo to test fire with - gets expensive.... Anyway, here is his report:

Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 10:16 AM
Subject: FG42 - ammo report

Hey there Mr. Rick, its .........

https://www.venturamunitions.com/russian-8mm-mauser-is-197-5gr-bi-metal-fmj-ammo-20-rounds/

I recently inquired about the use of this ammunition in my FG42 - and you mentioned you had not used it.

I purchased several boxes and wanted to give you a quick report.

The rounds eject about 45 degrees to the right and to about 3 feet from the rifle on the lowest gas setting. Brass showed no deformations on the case head, the rim, or anywhere alone the cylinder itself (with the exception of the dent the deflector makes)

There were no hangups, jams, failures to fire etc.

Recoil was very gentle, the I couldnt feel the bolt hitting the back of the rifle.

Inspecting all the parts, there were no wear marks or any signs of the brass causing issues.

Alright - now time for the bad news.

This brass is soft... very soft. I dont know if it is because they dont properly heat treat it or polish it smoothly but even in my bolt action rifles I got brass shavings everywhere.

After about 2 magazines, my 42 became very difficult to charge, and the reason for it was brass shavings were in the chamber and behind the bolt. What I would do is fire a magazine - clean the chamber - and repeat. Doing this kept the rifle running smooth as silk.

The bolt action rifles used were kar98ks --> and as I stated even they shaved off brass just by cycling.

I dont know if there is a solution to the brass shaving, I may experiment with polishing the brass prior to my next range trip to see if that helps to smoothen things up.
And lastly - my goodness that FG42 runs like a dream!

Thanks for this report, and I have to say it is awesome for you to comment on my post. I've been watching your development of the FG42 on InRangeTV and it is amazing what you've been able to do. I hope to be able to set aside enough to pick one of them up one day. I didn't notice any shaved off brass in the chamber or anywhere else, but I'll definitely keep an eye out for that. Thanks!

Also, sorry for the double post, not sure how to quote two posts at once.

 

[haak48]

I've attached a picture of the fired primers. I don't have anything to punch them out with currently. Would you say that this ammunition is safe to fire (to the rifle and user) with proper eye protection, or is this something that should be avoided? This stuff ran really well other than these two issues, so I was hoping it would make a cheap go-to. Maybe I should have the headspace re-checked if you think that might be an issue.

Primers look like the current 5.5mm Russian NC berdan (7.62N) produced for the commercial market. They are quite soft by military standards. The tight closing is really not an issue and could be caused by the reprocessing of the cases rather than tight head spacing in the rifle. Keep a proper lube on the rear bolt lug surfaces to prevent gauling and all should be well. Keep us advised of your testing. Thanks, JH

 

[Jethro897]

Primers look like the current 5.5mm Russian NC berdan (7.62N) produced for the commercial market. They are quite soft by military standards. The tight closing is really not an issue and could be caused by the reprocessing of the cases rather than tight head spacing in the rifle. Keep a proper lube on the rear bolt lug surfaces to prevent gauling and all should be well. Keep us advised of your testing. Thanks, JH

Thanks, man. I ordered a bunch of this ammo after my first field effort worked out so well, and only saw the split cases on my second trip out. I'll make sure to lube the locking lugs, I usually spray the friction surfaces with Remoil after I clean it, but maybe I should use actual gun grease. I'll keep shooting this ammo because I feel like shooting s.S. Patrone out of a Mauser is a religious experience, but I'll keep some PPU around for the wife and friends.

 

[Jethro897]

Indeed, very interesting thread

Thanks dude, all the info was provided by other people than me. I feel like this is the greatest collection of minds on the 8mm and its bolt action adapters. What a hell of a time to be alive.

 

[Bavarian Joe]

Here are some pictures of the case head and markings on the box. The only marking on the casing is actually along the side, which I've never really seen before. Some markings on the box that might be a place of manufacture, I don't speak Russian, though. Maybe one of you guys will recognize the markings.

That looks like new production brass. Why would they go to the trouble of removing the headstamp? Doing so would anneal the head. I doubt it's reworked WW2 era stuff.

I wonder who made the brass cases for the Russians. Wolf Gold was either S&B or Privi.