99% Matching "Nice" 1917 Amberg G98 Sells for ~$7500

[OnlyMil]

Ok, so I'll admit freely I was deeply involved in this one, and more or less venting about this lot ( LINK ) from today's Morphy Auctions "Collectible Firearms & Militaria" auction. I've been watching Morphy's for 2 years but never saw anything that justified bidding on with their stupid high buyer's premium of 23% + Shipping + Sales tax (add 3% if you use Proxibid). All-in-all for me the premium and taxes/fees come to about an additional 33% of the hammer price. However, this one caught my eye. I have been looking for a high-condition 95%+ matching and original G98 with excellent bore for 5 years (yet to own one) and finally saw it worth the shot.

I planned to go "all-in" on this one and expected to overpay. What I did not expect was for one other internet bidder to duke it out with me way past the ceiling I had in my head ($3400 hammer) and up to and past the $200-to-$500 bid increment at $5,000. It was just me and him from $2,000 to $5,500. This was the only lot I bid on. The only other comparable lot was a early and rare Sparkbrook Lee Metford with matching bolt, dust cover, volley sights, chained magazine, and even the clearing rod. That went for $6,000 hammer. None of the K98ks sold for more than $2,000 hammer. Honestly, I think this nice albeit rather common Gewehr 98 is in the like top 10 if not top 5 for hammer prices on this auction. Computing in the buyer's premium and fees (using 33% metric) on top of the $5,500 hammer price, that's almost or about ~$7,500.00 for a Gewehr 98. While I acknowledge the "bought early, not overpaid" mentality, pretty sure it's going to take many a years for time to catch up the that price. I definitely won't be kicking myself with "what ifs", I made sure of that.

Yes, I know, I should be happy I didn't win at $5,000, but I'm still PO'ed I couldn't win even for $3400 (which is still too much, I know). Gewehr 98s don't like me. I'll have to cope with my Kar98a's/AZ's. As a young collector, I just can't help but feel I'm late to game.

EDIT: It was the 2nd highest hammer price on a single rifle in the whole auction that was not a flintlock. There were 10 antique flintlocks that sold for more on the first day of the auction. 4th highest hammer price of the day (Day 3). Last but not least, the 33rd highest hammer price of the whole auction (3 Days, 1,632 lots total).

 

[mauser99]

nice story.. lets see it !!!

 

[cj556]

The gun in question had issues. I was friends with Ed Libby the owner (He’s deceased now sadly but he was like a grandfather to me and wrote the Japanese Standard Modell letter in volume 1 as Japanese arms were his speciality). I actually had a crack at this rifle long before it came to auction but passed due to the stock issues. (stock was lightly sanded called out in Morphys description). I was shocked at the hammer price. I paid about 4200 all in for 3 matching EWB marked G98s in the past two years. I don’t think it was worth anywhere near that money.

 

[chrisftk]

I wouldn't shed a tear over it Alex. It was a $1,500 gun maybe a touch more.

 

[MichaelWC]

So don't take this the wrong way. Your whole strategy of "I'm going to go all in" is not the best strategy going into an auction. You need to set limits, know your limits and know when to walk away. If you start a bidding war with someone and the price keeps getting higher. There are people out there who don’t give a shite about your "all in" strategy because they want it more then you and don’t care about the price. Biggest thing you need to take away from this is. You need to start networking more and make more friends that have the same interests as you. That is my two cents.

 

[Warrior1354]

I'll be honest I don't think there are many Gewehrs I would pay over $7,000 for. Maybe a sniper? I would probably pay close to $5,000 for a matching original Colonial. Well that's bcause I've spent 14 years hunting for one. Even still when you're getting close to the threshold of $10,000 in Imperial German items that's almost MG08/15 territory. And Michael said it best. Networking is so much more rewarding. It's always better to deal with friends. Even better when you can trade items that you both have interest in as well.

 

[hale1940]

Don’t shed a tear. You’re the one that walked away better in this situation. $7500 for 1917 Amberg is insane. $7500 for a 1917 Amberg with issues is just plain old retarded…

 

[AN-94]

I'm curious who's the madman that ended up having to foot the $7500 for this one. That's a hefty price for something that has some stock issues, either some didn't read or is a determined idiot.

 

[Loewe]

The gun in question had issues. I was friends with Ed Libby the owner (He’s deceased now sadly but he was like a grandfather to me and wrote the Japanese Standard Modell letter in volume 1 as Japanese arms were his speciality). I actually had a crack at this rifle long before it came to auction but passed due to the stock issues. (stock was lightly sanded called out in Morphys description). I was shocked at the hammer price. I paid about 4200 all in for 3 matching EWB marked G98s in the past two years. I don’t think it was worth anywhere near that money.

Ed's gone, damn sorry to hear that, he was one of the best collectors I have ever known, - up there with CB and John Wall's loss.

 

[OnlyMil]

The gun in question had issues. I was friends with Ed Libby the owner (He’s deceased now sadly but he was like a grandfather to me and wrote the Japanese Standard Modell letter in volume 1 as Japanese arms were his speciality). I actually had a crack at this rifle long before it came to auction but passed due to the stock issues. (stock was lightly sanded called out in Morphys description). I was shocked at the hammer price. I paid about 4200 all in for 3 matching EWB marked G98s in the past two years. I don’t think it was worth anywhere near that money.

Stock may have been lightly sanded but looking at the finger grooves and the cartouches, definitely not to the point of obliteration. Almost all of the rifles I ever see for sale are sanded into oblivion (no marking whatsoever) and if they had finger grooves, they look more like dents after they've been rounded into nothingness. Either that or the stock is the color black, the metal is completely bare, it's completely mismatched, a turk'ed rifle, blued receiver, sewer pipes, or rusted/pitted again into oblivion. I have no idea where you guys find decent wholistic examples because no matter where I look nothing ever comes up. Then the problem rifles sell for stupid money anyway. This epitomizes gunbroker Gewehr 98 sales, of which I have bid on none of them.

Question for you: do you know what was going on with the buttplate? It has an early JP Sauer K98k buttplate. When/why/how it was replaced?

So don't take this the wrong way. Your whole strategy of "I'm going to go all in" is not the best strategy going into an auction. You need to set limits, know your limits and know when to walk away. If you start a bidding war with someone and the price keeps getting higher. There are people out there who don’t give a shite about your "all in" strategy because they want it more then you and don’t care about the price. Biggest thing you need to take away from this is. You need to start networking more and make more friends that have the same interests as you. That is my two cents.

I'll be honest I don't think there are many Gewehrs I would pay over $7,000 for. Maybe a sniper? I would probably pay close to $5,000 for a matching original Colonial. Well that's bcause I've spent 14 years hunting for one. Even still when you're getting close to the threshold of $10,000 in Imperial German items that's almost MG08/15 territory. And Michael said it best. Networking is so much more rewarding. It's always better to deal with friends. Even better when you can trade items that you both have interest in as well.

I couldn't let it go without a decent effort. Was not going to be left kicking myself on what could have been, and for a $5,500 hammer price I definitely won't be. I'm just shocked someone out there really bid to that. No idea who they are but they must have more money than sense. The problem I have is that the forums are really all I have. 2A is in retreat in my part of the country (Northeast) and whenever I get to the range (which isn't very often) the other club members are very nice (also at least 20+ years older than me), but none are into surplus. Maybe the occasional M1 shooter. One time I was shooting a Swiss K31 and one guy came over and asked, "Is that there one of them mossy nuggets?". They have helped me a lot on reloading though. The largest gun show in my state is only 1,000 tables. Not sure how long that will last with the political climate being the way it is since it it hosted at a state-owned facility. It also seems that most forum members and my club members have at least 10-20 years on me, and while their knowledge is invaluable, I guess I seem to have a hard time relating.

I'm curious who's the madman that ended up having to foot the $7500 for this one. That's a hefty price for something that has some stock issues, either some didn't read or is a determined idiot.

Me too!! I was dumbfounded. If this mystery Mr. Moneybags wasn't involved in the bidding it would have been a $2,200 hammer... The real winner of the lot is Morphy's and Ed Libby's estate.



Thank you everyone for your input, I appreciate the advice.

 

[cj556]

I have no idea why the buttplate was replaced. Perhaps being it was swapped in EWB service during WW2? Maybe Ed did it? I am glad for Ed's kids & grandchildren's sake that this rifle brought so much however. Sometimes at auction you have people who have more money than brains as Ed would say. I don't mean any disrespect but you have to consider the majority of these rifles saw hard use in the trenches, so judging them by K31 or 98k standards is gonna hinder you finding a good honest gun. Bore condition is usually a secondary consideration for me personally, I wouldn't use a matching gun as a shooter. I've seen plenty of nice untouched G98s at auction in the past couple years but you have to be persistent & imo connections/networking will go a lot further than throwing money at the problem. I am also younger & live in the Northeast (Ive seen one good bolt mm Danzig 1916 in all my years of going to Maine shows... our largest show is about 250 tables) l thought I missed the boat but I've been able to persist in this hobby on a budget.

 

[mauser99]

Auctions can turn out like this but, it takes two or more to tango. Sounds insane and it probably is. Lots of time when things like this happen the item is never seen again. Its wheeled into a
large collection like the Arc at the end oF Raiders and it never resurfaces.

Big money dark buyers are still out there buying from RIA and Morphys ect..

 

[OnlyMil]

I know most of these rifles saw hard use. I have however seen the nice ones, always a little too late, but nonetheless that is what I am after. I'm not knocking a good honest gun, only that I'd really rather not settle for what I've seen come up for sale in the last 2 years. I mean just look at these recent GB listings:

Mauser Gewehr 98 9mm Mauser Waffenfabrik Oberndorf Mfg 1918 C&R

WW1 1917 J.P Sauer Gewehr 98 Gew 98 Mauser

1913 WWI Era Spandau 1913 Gewehr 98

1918 WWI Mauser A.G Oberndorfr Gewehr 98 Long Rifle

These are not good honest guns IMO. Every one of these have their stock markings completely obliterated. Poor finish remaining or not even original finish. Mismatched parts. Poor bores. One is cut down and sold for nearly $1700! Personally, I'd rather shell out double these prices for a nice example than have 2 of the above. I plan to hold on to the firearms I collect for another 40-50 years so over time the value is worth it to me. And yes, even bore condition. Not saying I would pass on an otherwise pristine example if it had a mild frost, but I would pay more for one with a clean bore. I would not however, purchase an all-matching rifling regardless of poor overall condition simply because it is matching (unless it was REALLY cheap). I know, this is not the consensus of the forum and I'm sure everyone will groan and roll their eyes at me for saying it. That is just where I am at. I find that not even if I necessarily plan to fire the rifle, but that the rifle have the ability to be fired is of greater value than one that may not be so (clipped firing pin, sewer pipe bore). I am fortunate to have some additional disposal income (not like whoever won yesterday's lot however) and have no problem paying a little more today for a top notch piece.

 

[OnlyMil]

And I don't know what it is with me and Gewehr 98s. As I mentioned a "pristine" Gewehr 98 is my grail gun. I have had no problem finding Kar98a's which are my other guilty pleasure. Won a beautiful 1909 Erfurt Kar98a at a small auction for $1500 in June. All matching, excellent shape. Not a perfect bore, but "very good bore with light oxidation and spots of light pitting, but strong rifling throughout."

Just this past fall I closed a private sale with a gentleman I've come to know over the years (he's been offloading his collection for many years now) for a 1918 Erfurt Kar98a in practically factory condition (excellent bore too). Gewehr 98s seem to have outproduced Kar98a's by a factor of 3 to 1. So if can I find 2 excellent Kar98a in the span of one year, but not a single Gewehr 98 in 2 years, I guess I just have bad luck!