All-Matching 1909 Erfurt Kar98a

[OnlyMil]

I am very excited and deeply honored to be able to present to the forum my first Kar98a, that I had designs on obtaining for well over a month now. Well, I'd finally received it and got it apart to clean and I was not disappointed. According to the 8 page online pdf compiled by Peter Kuck, Erfurt produced roughly 13,000 Kar98a's in 1909, the lowest full year of production (1907 was a partial year) and amounts to about 0.758% of total production at Erfurt. Everything on this rifle matches, except for the butt-plate which appears to have worn off from use. There are no unit markings on the top of the butt-plate either. The rifle is in exceptional shape for the time period in which it went through. The stock is a "Type 1" walnut without takedown disc or grasping grooves and is cosmetically appealing, albeit slightly worn from handling. I can't imagine it saw any frontline service. The rifle is not duffle-cut nor import marked and the firing pin is intact. The exposed metal is original blue toning to a brown patina. The barrel under the handguard has an exceptional fire blue still present. The bolt is correct in-the-white as well as the magazine follower. Some interesting takeaways for me personally was the font of the "Kar98" on the side-rail. It is not the scripted font found on later Kar98a's from Erfurt. Also interesting was the sheer number of imperial inspector marks on literally every individual piece, right down to the locking screws and magazine follower release spring in the triggerguard. I can't imagine being the guy having to inspect and stamp locking screws all day!!!

The bore is also surprising: having strong prominent rifling with a very mild frost throughout. I had noticed a lot of what seems to be very old grease that persisted in remaining on the metal and could not be removed by trying to buff it off by hand. Not willing to try anything more than that!

Lastly, and most peculiarly for me, when I took off the lower band and handguard, there is what appears to be very old cloth present on the top part of the lower band, and underneath either side of the handguard. It got me thinking that this rifle may never have been dissembled before it made it to my hands. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could shed more light. Anyway, I'll take a page out of Chris' book and provide a data sheet (thank you for the inspiration, your write-ups are spectacular!):

Receiver: 751a
Barre:l 751a (KR 11)
Front Sight: 51
Rear Sight Base: 51
Rear Sight: 51
Bolt Release: 51
Trigger Sear: 51
Front Barrel Band - Lower Assembly: 51
Front Barrel Band - Upper Assembly: 51
Stacking Swivel Retainer: 51
Stacking Swivel: 51
Lower Barrel Band: 51
Trigger Guard: 751
Trigger Guard Screws: 51, 51
Floor Plate: 51
Follower: 51
Stock: 751
Stock Channel: 751
Handguard: 751
Buttplate: BLANK (worn off)
Bayonet Lug: 51 (5 is worn)
Bolt body: 751a
Safety: 51
Cocking Piece: 51
Bolt shroud: 51
Firing Pin: 51
Extractor: 51

 

[OnlyMil]

More photos.

 

[OnlyMil]

Last but not least.

 

[chrisftk]

That's a nice one Alex! Congrats! Danzig was the big producer pre-war, but Erfurt picked up very quickly and exploded during the war. Spandau and to a lesser extent Amberg are the toughest by far, as their production was fleeting.

I'm surprised it isn't unit marked on top of the buttplate. I believe the cloth are shims possibly added by a prior owner to provide a better fit.

Thank you also for not over cleaning. I saw a newer guy "pimp shine" a rare Gew98 with a patina a couple years ago because ReCeIvErS aRe SuPpOsEd tO bE iN tHe WhItE! (Still recovering from that one)

Finally, might I direct you to Rifle and Carbine 98 by Dieter Storz. It's the best resource for these on the market, right now anyway. The Jensen article is a bit outdated.

 

[biggymu]

That’s a super nice example! Thanks for sharing it!

 

[feldmütze]

Excellent acquisition, congrats. Peter Kuck had some nice K98a's.

 

[jbc98k]

Nice Kar98a! Regarding the piece of cloth under the lower band as this is a 1911 I'm going to speculate it was disassembled at some point prior to you getting it.
An interesting thing is on my 1915 Erfurt from Peter there is a piece of cloth glued in the barrel channel from the bayonet lug back about 14.5 cm. It covers the stacking hook stock insert.
If I recall Peter said it was there when he got it.

 

[Loewe]

PeterK was really into the 98a some years ago; a fine researcher also, while we had similar interests 20 years ago he was far more successful than I was in the 98a field, he had all the makers, some with duplicates. Of course he had some great advantages, he knew everyone there was to know in the field and was running in all the right circles.

Nice rifle, but Erfurt/09 is known to the early b-block (Danzig/09 high c-block); though Danzig's seem to have better unit markings, Erfurt often are not unit marked and many that are are artillery...

 

[OnlyMil]

That's a nice one Alex! Congrats! Danzig was the big producer pre-war, but Erfurt picked up very quickly and exploded during the war. Spandau and to a lesser extent Amberg are the toughest by far, as their production was fleeting.

I'm surprised it isn't unit marked on top of the buttplate. I believe the cloth are shims possibly added by a prior owner to provide a better fit.

Thank you also for not over cleaning. I saw a newer guy "pimp shine" a rare Gew98 with a patina a couple years ago because ReCeIvErS aRe SuPpOsEd tO bE iN tHe WhItE! (Still recovering from that one)

Finally, might I direct you to Rifle and Carbine 98 by Dieter Storz. It's the best resource for these on the market, right now anyway. The Jensen article is a bit outdated.

Thank you Chris! Means a lot! You've been very helpful in how to look at these rifles and I'm forever grateful. I was a little surprised too by the lack of unit marking, but I suppose it wouldn't be uncommon per Loewe's reply. I left the shims in place, didn't see any harm in it. The cloth was not glued to the metal or anything but kind of just held in place by compression. The one piece at the forward end of the handguard fell out when I took off the handguard which got me to notice. The cloth is very old at least.

I'm glad I could dissuade some fears about new collectors haha. No "restoration" work here! All that went into cleaning this was some kroil, a little ballistol, a microfiber cloth, a few Q-tips, and elbow grease!

I'll be sure to mark down that publication, I've been adding a list of books to purchase to expand my knowledge past the typical google search. Thank you again!

Nice Kar98a! Regarding the piece of cloth under the lower band as this is a 1911 I'm going to speculate it was disassembled at some point prior to you getting it.
An interesting thing is on my 1915 Erfurt from Peter there is a piece of cloth glued in the barrel channel from the bayonet lug back about 14.5 cm. It covers the stacking hook stock insert.
If I recall Peter said it was there when he got it.

Thank you! Yes, you are probably right, just getting carried away with the excellent haha. Chris is probably right it is some sort of shim. Not glued or anything but still very old. I just left them in place.

PeterK was really into the 98a some years ago; a fine researcher also, while we had similar interests 20 years ago he was far more successful than I was in the 98a field, he had all the makers, some with duplicates. Of course he had some great advantages, he knew everyone there was to know in the field and was running in all the right circles.

Nice rifle, but Erfurt/09 is known to the early b-block (Danzig/09 high c-block); though Danzig's seem to have better unit markings, Erfurt often are not unit marked and many that are are artillery...

Thank you! That is exceptional about Peter K's collection. I don't really know of him, just his publication through google. First result when you google Kar98a. The Kar98a was always something I was interested in as the primary predecessor to the K98k. I've had more luck with Kar98a's than Gewehr 98s. I would buy more but lately I've had to shift focus away from WWI collecting (my true focus) unfortunately due to political reasons in my state. This was my last acquisition before the shift.

Interesting about the production numbers. So then Erfurt produced at least 20,000+ rifles in 1909? I was surprised to find this rifle is such decent shape for when it was made, and matching at that.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Excellent find, Alex! And thank you for taking the time to photograph the markings in such detail. A well examined early example, especially one that is so original, is very helpful to the study. I added it to the reference!

I think that the shims were added by an owner/shooter in the past for accuracy, i've seen old articles on how to accurize military weapons with suggestions like this. My guess would be that this Kar is in such nice shape because, rather than being stored away for a century, someone used it as a shooter. You can see very light abrasions in the wood in a few spots, like around the lower band, indicating it was lightly cleaned/maintained.

PeterK's PDF is a great place to start, but i think he was off on production numbers. Another collector here and i were trying to do the math on another early year--Danzig 1912 i believe--and his Kar was quite a bit higher by serial block than Peter's estimation. But that is the nature of study, we are always revising and updating as new information comes to light.

 

[OnlyMil]

Excellent find, Alex! And thank you for taking the time to photograph the markings in such detail. A well examined early example, especially one that is so original, is very helpful to the study. I added it to the reference!

I think that the shims were added by an owner/shooter in the past for accuracy, i've seen old articles on how to accurize military weapons with suggestions like this. My guess would be that this Kar is in such nice shape because, rather than being stored away for a century, someone used it as a shooter. You can see very light abrasions in the wood in a few spots, like around the lower band, indicating it was lightly cleaned/maintained.

PeterK's PDF is a great place to start, but i think he was off on production numbers. Another collector here and i were trying to do the math on another early year--Danzig 1912 i believe--and his Kar was quite a bit higher by serial block than Peter's estimation. But that is the nature of study, we are always revising and updating as new information comes to light.

Thank you Cyrus! And it is an honor to contribute to the picture reference, thank you again! Glad I could help in some way.

Now that you point it out I see what you mean with the light abrasions marks. I guess this just means I'll have to put a few rounds through the rifle to put the accurizing to the test! (Barring my own user error haha)

Very informative about the serial number study, I learn something new every day. Exciting stuff!

 

[Loewe]

PK's online articles are largely based upon Mark Wieringa's and or Robert Jensen's articles, often updated and modified by PeterK, though offhand I am not sure how much this applies to the 98a article. Peter typically clearly states the case at the top of each article.

Robert Jensen originally made up general overviews of each maker, best known are the 98k sheets, he published them in the KCN in the late 1980's, the MRJ on the 1990's and typically there were reprints he handed out at the gun shows in some cases (PK ran a collectors guild in CT, that is where I met him a couple times and at the Virginia where he was associated around 2004 or so), he knew everyone in the hobby then, all the researchers (or aspiring) anyway. He was the best friend new collectors could have, he helped many on their start around the turn of the Century.

Anyway, the production totals are often wrong, based upon very limited observations, especially Imperial ranges, where often the arsenals are difficult to interpret due to their tendency to continue where they left off the prior year, - and to make it even more confusing they also made small no suffix runs that gives the impression of huge numbers early on... however this is unlikely the case as there are massive gaps between the no-suffix rifles and the majority group, further it is shown in observations that these start where they generally leftoff the prior year (excluding the no-suffix and a few early suffix rifles)

Prior to 1998 little of this type of observations were possible, the on-line collector associations and auction observations changed this dramatically! (this forum most of all as this is the first true internet forum started by "German" military rifle collectors and with the intent to further research into these questions,- ostensibly but like everything, things often evolve into something unexpected at first.