Behoerden bayonet grouping

[KroniK]

I was able to add a nice set of Behoerden bayonets to the collection.
I would love your opinions on it. If anything seems off, please leave your comments.

All markings are photographed. The lighting is a bit harsh, but should show true colors and details.
There are no WaA markings present. All bayonets are unsharpened.

This is the list, I'll post them in order:

• ACS police eagleB 6108
• ACS police starburst
• AWS
• unmarked breadbag frog
• RBDBr narrow pattern
• unmarked early
• WKC early
• WKC late

 

[KroniK]

ACS police eagleB 6108

Has a serialized push button

 

[KroniK]

ACS police starburst

Has a serialized pushbutton.
Sits very tight in the scabbard. What could be the cause of this?

 

[KroniK]

AWS

 

[KroniK]

unmarked breadbag frog

Bayonet sits very tight in the frog. Impossible to remove I think.
Similar frog as comparison.

 

[KroniK]

RBDBr narrow pattern

Blade width measures 23,9mm.
Scabbard seems to be the normal type. A normal bayonet fits inside.
Appears to be painted black.
Serialized push button.

 

[KroniK]

unmarked early

Again a serialized push button

 

[KroniK]

WKC early

Serialized push button. Doesn't sit flush with the handle.

 

[KroniK]

WKC late

 

[AndyB]

Nice bunch of Behorden S84/98, the tight sitting scabbard ACS could be looked inside to inner spring of scabbard, possible the springleaf was cracked or bented or some other happened inside, a good oiling of blade could help a little.

 

[KroniK]

What could be the reason for the serialized push buttons?

 

[AndyB]

Serialisation is normal as the parts of locking lug were not rechangeable wout additional mashining of pommel, so in white it was mounted and serialed and then dissasembled and given into blueing bath, after this it was assembled per these assembly numbers. The press button (countersunk) itself is not so important as it should only have correct diameter.

 

[KroniK]

My latest addition, unmarked, no WaA's, not sharpened.
Serial number 509 on scabbard, blade and the push button.
What are your opinions please?
At one point maybe a lot of surface rust that has been cleaned? Therefore the wooden grips as well?
Finish on the blade is dull.
I can't put my finger on it, but it feels like the finish/wear on the handle, the blade and the scabbard are all different.

 

[AndyB]

Personally i dont see here typical Eickhorn preparation of blade edge, more real its Horster or other maker, for more info should be looked under grips probably. 509 are over dimmensional, probably stamped by owner facility. It looks like there was a frog and some short time usage of the piece, anyway not extra well used.

 

[KroniK]

I did a quick comparison with a bayonet that comes close in many ways. I think it's a late war Eickhorn.
The big difference is that the left bayonet has a consistent finish throughout (the little scratches), like we see in other bayonets later on.
The 509 bayonet however, has a dull smooth blade. Something I would expect to see in combination with a polished handle and scabbard.
You can also clearly see that the left bayonet's push button is clearly finished at the same time as the handle.
The 509's push button seems off. Also personally haven't seen a matching number on the push button on a behoerden bayonet. So I'm interested in your thoughts on that as well.

So could it be feasible that it was made in a transition period where the blade with still polished, but the handle/scabbard was not?
Was the blade refinished? But then why only the blade, not the rest.
Maybe period reconditioned when it got the 509 mark?
Or after war reconditioned/reassembled and someone recognizes the oversized style of the 509 stamp being used somewhere?

Attached is the comparison with what I think is a later war Eickhorn (left side) and the 509 bayonet (right side).

 

[Slash]

@KroniK keep in mind, the 509 numbering at the ricasso is not really a serial number. It was not applied by the maker at the time of manufacture. It is an accountability or rack number applied by the unit or entity it was issued to. Police or other organization. The 509 hidden on the bottom of the locking lug/bolt was applied by the maker. It is a bench or assembly number as stated in previous postings. The armorer who added the ricasso numbers may have used the bench number as an identifier for whatever reasons. I am mainly elaborating on the comments left by Andrej. The point I am trying to make is don't consider "matching numbers" in this case to be a factor in maker identification.

I can agree with assertions that the bayonet on the left is possibly an Eickhorn product. In my opinion the 509 bayonet is definitely not manufactured by Eickhorn. It is most likely Hörster made or possibly a very scarce E. Pack behoerden. The pommel profile has the slightly rounded appearance that you see with Pack bayonets. Same with the blade profile, finish and grinding particularly at the ricasso. Your call of course Jonathan, but if you could disassemble the pieces in question and provide pics of the blade blank markings I could identify the maker(s) with certainty.

My thoughts only .......

 

[pwcosol]

Slasher, think you got it pegged. After a closer look at OP's bayonet's pommel cap shape and catch button, got my example out. Both share similar characteristics. Catch bar is sn 718 on forward face. Finish is a dull one to both blade and scabbard. Pommel appears more domed partially due to the curvature where it terminates at the opening of the T/O slot... something I see on a nicely blued, earlier "cul 44" I have. Had a suspicion for years this behoerden might be made by E. Pack, but never enough proof to cinch it...

 

[AndyB]

Yes as mentioned by Slash it could be Pack production wout stamps, the identify for exact could be confirmed by tang markings sometimes. There is possible the 509 on lock and mostly on other parts inside of handle was a serial of a bunch that was applied for a special contract for unknown branch, and later the armorer added this to blade and scabbard as a inventory number.

 

[KroniK]

Thank you all for the great insights.
My main concern was postwar tinkering.
I've never opened up a bayonet before, I'll have a look if I can find fitting tools.

Edit: screws loosened easily. Will take pics tomorrow

 

[KroniK]

Some surface rust that I cleaned up.
One side has the 509, the other side Na.
Nothing on the wooden grips.