Danzig 1915 Aquisition

[chrisftk]

Good morning all,

I was lucky enough to grab two nice looking 1915 rifles in quick succession last week, a Danzig and a DWM-- both u block to boot! I'll post the DWM later, but here is the Danzig anyway.

The rifle itself is in nice shape, mostly matching and really has a lot of the Danzig crudeness you see on these. There are no major conditional issues other than bumps and bruises on the stock. I'll say it like I always do, I love the quirky Danzig fp eagle. Reminds me more of a dragon or phoenix than an eagle.

I'm drawing a total blank on the manufacturer, but the barrel code is BJ 107. I tend to see a lot of Bismarckhutte and a few Krupp barrels on Danzig, but this is the first BJ barrel I've run into on one. I know they are not unknown on other makers, but I don't think it's an interchangeability of I and J thing, right? I mean Bismarckhutte is clearly BI on my other Danzigs I've seen.

In any case, cool rifle and happy to have it. Here's the data:

Receiver SN: 9713u

Barrel SN: 9713u Barrel Code: BJ 107

Front sight SN: 60

Rear sight SN: 13

Sight Slider SN: 13

Ejector box SN: 13

Trigger Sear SN: 13

Front barrel band SN: 13

Rear barrel band SN: 13

Trigger guard SN: 9713

Trigger guard screws SN: F: blank, R: blank

Floor Plate SN: 13

Follower SN: 13

Stock SN: 9713 crown/O side acceptance,

Handguard SN: 9713

Buttplate SN: 9713

Bayonet lug SN: 13

Bolt body SN: 9713u , crown/O acceptance

Extractor SN: 25

Safety SN: 13

Cocking piece SN: 13

Bolt sleeve SN: 13

Firing pin SN: Czech circle/z (perhaps a fix for a clipped one)

Thanks for looking.

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[chrisftk]

Pics ctd..

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[Warrior1354]

Awesome rifles Chris and having two 1915 dated rifles this matching is not easy to locate. Very happy for you buddy

 

[Bigdibbs88]

I almost hit the BIN on that thing. It’s a nice one. *must stay out of ww1. * must stay out of ww1

 

[feldmütze]

Is there an acceptance marking on the stock disk?

 

[Loewe]

I think BJ and BI (or Bi) are all Bismarckhütte, looking at trends they seem to break down by year, for example BJ are only seen on 1915, whereas BI is 1916 (no exceptions so far these years) this follows pre-war patterns too where the three variations can alternate for years and then change others. Interestingly during 1917 both codes are used, BI up to the high 800's and BJ through the 900's, for whatever reason Danzig seems to have alternated patterns and there is no other good case for BJ being anything else than Bismarck.

BSI is similar, Bergische Stahl-Industrie-Gesellschaft Remscheid can be BSI or BSJ (their trademark includes B.S.J.), but I think it is probably just another quirky practice by Danzig.

I agree on the rifle, quite a score, very hard to find a 1915 in this condition. Gotta love Danzig's too, they are the least well understood of the makers, between the diversity and inconsistency, and their sort of "sinister" mystique they are easily the most interesting of the G98 makers.

 

[chrisftk]

Thanks guys! I was happy to find it too. I figured it would last long. Thanks for not buying Rob! Lol.

Mike, the inspection is very faint, but it's there. At first I thought I'd maybe had a chance at a unit mark, but no dice. The slot under the spanner screw is a bit rough and the screw isn't patina like the disc, so I wonder if a prior owner didn't try to flip it. I've only lucked out on flipping a disc once on an 02 Erfurt and it was a doozy thankfully.

Paul-- thanks for clearing up the BJ code, my first instinct was Bismarckhütte, but I started thinking about it too much and doubted it.



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[mauser1908]

Awesome that you've located two 1915 dated rifles in such high condition back to back, definitely a tough feat. It almost makes you wonder if Danzig or Erfurt was sloppier, one of my favorite characteristics of 1915 and 1916 Danzig rifles are that so many seem to have exposed barrel acceptance/barrel codes. Both had good reason for the slop!

 

[Sylvanian]

I think BJ and BI (or Bi) are all Bismarckhütte, looking at trends they seem to break down by year, for example BJ are only seen on 1915, whereas BI is 1916 (no exceptions so far these years) this follows pre-war patterns too where the three variations can alternate for years and then change others. Interestingly during 1917 both codes are used, BI up to the high 800's and BJ through the 900's, for whatever reason Danzig seems to have alternated patterns and there is no other good case for BJ being anything else than Bismarck.

BSI is similar, Bergische Stahl-Industrie-Gesellschaft Remscheid can be BSI or BSJ (their trademark includes B.S.J.), but I think it is probably just another quirky practice by Danzig.

I agree on the rifle, quite a score, very hard to find a 1915 in this condition. Gotta love Danzig's too, they are the least well understood of the makers, between the diversity and inconsistency, and their sort of "sinister" mystique they are easily the most interesting of the G98 makers.

My curiosity has been piqued. Can you please expand upon the "sinister mystique" comment?

 

[Loewe]

East Prussia, at least for me, is often associated with harsh conditions, oppression and militarism, - the Junkers (landowning aristocracy) that are so much of Germany's sinister reputation that lingers on even today... Danzig's reputation at the time was a remote and backward region and the arsenal had serious problems attracting skilled workers mostly due to its harsh conditions. Who would want to live in Danzig prior to WWI (during or after for that matter).

Anyway, when I think of the greatness of Germany, it is of the western and southern states, not the harsh conditions in the eastern areas, - authoritarian regimes do not make countries (societies) great, when authoritarian states become powerful it is despite their nature rather than because of it. Today most countries are authoritarian in nature (and the illusion of wealth is due to central banks and legacy of past greatness), look at this "pandemic" farce, which exposes the authoritarian nature of all modern states (I didn't think it possible for this country to fall for another 9/11 scale hoax & power grab... I can only imagine what comes next in new and powerful agencies to "protect us" from imagined threats...); in short it is the innovators that made Germany great and powerful, the engineers and industrialists of the late 19th century, almost all of western Germany (west of the Elbe), not the deceitful politicians and militarists, though much credit must go to Bismarck, probably the most remarkable man Germany ever produced.

 

[Sylvanian]

Thank you for the explanation. I have read that the Danzig arsenal had some quality issues at times but didn't know the underlying reason. 20th century German history is utterly fascinating.
Well put about our authoritarian regime(s) and the significance to current events. The thing that worries me most about all of this is is the public's reaction (or lack thereof).

 

[Warrior1354]

As Paul has stated Danzig is probably one the most interesting state run arsenals out of all them IMO. Even after all these years of research and data new interesting rifles by this firm keep coming up for sale. My 1907/14 is a perfect example. But the most interesting out of all them is the 1912/15 dated rifles. Only two examples have been found and both are in the same letter block. But there is no data to be found why Danzig made Gew98 receivers in 1912. We know they were making a decent amount of Kar98a carbines in that year but why the Gew98 receivers. Maybe they were gearing up for subcontracting receivers out to another possibly firm to produce rifles? In the year of 1912 the world knew a war was coming but it just didn't have the right fuse to set it off yet.

Still why didn't Danzig use these receivers when they started making rifles again in 1914 we have only seen them in 1915, and just an 1912 dated Danzig Gew98 receiver has not been located yet. I say yet but there is no telling what else may come out of the woodwork.

Tell you the truth I find researching and studying all of this very interesting.

 

[mauser1908]

As Paul has stated Danzig is probably one the most interesting state run arsenals out of all them IMO. Even after all these years of research and data new interesting rifles by this firm keep coming up for sale. My 1907/14 is a perfect example. But the most interesting out of all them is the 1912/15 dated rifles. Only two examples have been found and both are in the same letter block. But there is no data to be found why Danzig made Gew98 receivers in 1912. We know they were making a decent amount of Kar98a carbines in that year but why the Gew98 receivers. Maybe they were gearing up for subcontracting receivers out to another possibly firm to produce rifles? In the year of 1912 the world knew a war was coming but it just didn't have the right fuse to set it off yet.

Still why didn't Danzig use these receivers when they started making rifles again in 1914 we have only seen them in 1915, and just an 1912 dated Danzig Gew98 receiver has not been located yet. I say yet but there is no telling what else may come out of the woodwork.

Tell you the truth I find researching and studying all of this very interesting.

Maybe they loaded the wrong die when they roll stamped them lol Jk.

What does the hardening proof look like on them by comparison to normal 1915 dated rifle? I agree a lot of oddball stuff came out of that arsenal during this time. It would be interesting to see where the 1912 dated receivers land by comparison to 1915 dated guns built on recycled receivers.