Dresden Sterngewehre Serial Numbers

[PrayingMantis]

An interesting Interarms imported SCW Gew popped up at auction recently. The receiver is Dresden assembled 1917/18 Simson & Co. Suhl. The barrel is a Weimar replacement, but the rest is mismatched. It sparked a discussion about serials when Chris mentioned that the number suffix should be 5. It looks, conclusively, that there is no number block and this was the 293rd Gew Dresden assembled that year. This runs counter to the belief that Dresden numbered their entire 1915 to 1918 production run sequentially. After reviewing the serial numbers on the Dresden examples posted here, i found one other definite conflict, 1916 2244 2 and 1917 4559 1, and one potential conflict between 1915 5903 and 1916 3249 if indeed there is no suffix, which leads me to believe that Dresden started over at serial number 1 every production year.

1915: Spandau 1914/15; 5577; c/H c/L c/L; FA15; Bi 921
1915: Spandau 1914/15; 5903; c/P c/? ??; FA15; Kr A 11
1916: ??????; 3249; FA16 (Stock Set only)
1916: WMO 1906; 7819; FA16 (mismatched barrel)(no star on receiver)
1916: WOK 1916; 2432 1; FA16; c/B c/K c/K; S 66
1916: WMO 1907/16; 4129 1; FA16;
1916: DWM 1915/16; 1983 2; FA16
1916: Erfurt 1899/16; 2244 2; FA16
1916: Spandau 1916; 9092 2; c/U c/K c/K; FA16; Kr3030 Sa
1917: Spandau 1916/17; 431 c/U c/K c/K; FA17
1917: Spandau 1916/17; 1210
1917: Spandau 1916/17; 3813 c/U c/K c/K; FA17
1917: Spandau 1916/17; 4517 c/U c/K c/K; FA17
1917: Spandau 1916/17; 9082 c/U c/K c/K; FA17
1917: Spandau 1916/17; 9329 c/U c/K c/K; FA17 KR1140 Sa.
1917: Spandau 1916/17; 9862; c/U c/K c/K; FA17
1917: Spandau 1916/17; 4559 1; c/J c/A c/A; FA17; S 38?
1917: ?????? ; 8727 1; FA17 (Stock and Triggerguard only)
1917: Spandau 1917; 9125 1; c/U c/A c/K; FA17; Kr 79314 Sa
1917: Spandau 1917; 3377 2; c/U c/A c/A?; Kr 258 Sa (Barreled Action only)
1917: Spandau 1916/17; 3659 2; c/J c/A c/K; FA17
1917: Simson Suhl 1917; 3812 3; c/Z c/E c/E; FA17
1918: Simson Suhl 1917/18; 293; c/B c/E c/E (Barreled Receiver only)

Perhaps Paul can flesh this list out more. When reviewing previous discussion, he stated that the suffixes were less relevant than the date on the buttplate. I'm proposing that the suffixes may be consistent with the buttplate for production year and the receivers are the part that may be less important. (Additionally, Storz states Dresden assembled approximately 60,000 Gewehre. Ending at block 5 in 1918 would support this, but ending at block 2 in 1916, high block 3 or low block 4 in 1917, with no suffixes in 1915 or 1918 would keep total numbers close to 60,000.)

When lined up, it is also quite interesting to see that Dresden started with salvaged receivers, then went through a Spandau subcontractor phase, and finished with largely Simsons. Maybe Simson started sending receivers to Dresden when they dropped production for Saxony?

 

[cj556]

Another from CB: DWM 1915/16 receiver. S# 1983/2. Buttplate dated 1916.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Another from CB: DWM 1915/16 receiver. S# 1983/2. Buttplate dated 1916.

Awesome, thanks man, i'll add it to the list!

 

[chrisftk]

Cyrus,

Great post. I think you were on to something with that. I know that a 5 block has yet to be seen, so I think that they must have restarted each year though I doubt even in any "high" any year they got out of the 3 block. That still seems to bracket Storz estimated production of 60-65k

 

[Loewe]

I will see if I can flesh out these observations, though I think you should include RR & BC whenever possible. I will try to do this in a trends sheet...

 

[MichaelWC]

Awesome post Cyrus. I would give you information about mine but I already see it up there.

 

[PrayingMantis]

I will see if I can flesh out these observations, though I think you should include RR & BC whenever possible. I will try to do this in a trends sheet...

Excellent, thanks, Paul. You are absolutely right about the additional information, I was simplifying it to focus on the serial numbers, but I will add that later today.

Awesome post Cyrus. I would give you information about mine but I already see it up there.

Thanks, Mike! The photos in your post about your Dresden are definitely a help.

 

[PrayingMantis]

While cruising google images I found this example, Spandau 1916/17 1210 no block, which I added to the above list. It replaces Chris’s 4559 1 as the new low for 1917. https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=68877

 

[PrayingMantis]

No number block 1916 Dresden. Not quite a new low but definitely lower than most 1916s.

 

[mauser1908]

Interesting that the date wasn't re-struck.

 

[chrisftk]

Interesting that the date wasn't re-struck.

And I don't see a star, similar to our 1915s