Dutch M95 stock modification as a German WO-II booty-rifle

[gelderenj]

Until the German occupation in WW-II, the Dutch army was equipped with the M95 6,5 mm bolt action rifle with a 5 shot, clip loaded Mannlicher style, magazine. The first series of these rifles were made at Steyr (Austria) but later on the M95 was manufactured under license by the so called Artillerie Inrichtingen (AI) in the Netherlands.

It is common known that the Germans used the Dutch M95’s rifles as booty rifles indicated as Gewehr 211(h). In general, these M95's were not modified. In general… But, see the photo’s of a modified one. There exists several M95’s of which the stock is modified this way to fit the standard German K98 style rifle sling in the collection of the Dutch Army museum at Delft (See website: http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/i004830.html"]http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/i004830.html"]http://www.collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/i004830.html) and in the collections of a few Dutch gun collectors.







I would like to ask the members of the forum if they know anything about this modification. The Dutch army museum doesn’t know anything about it. Probably the modification has been made at the Dutch AI (the production continued under the supervision of the German occupiers) but there is no evidence for this assumption.

Do you know of any evidence about were this modification was made?

Do you know were (which country), and by whom (which police-, or army force)?

Do you know / or have any photo’s of M95’s (modified or not) in use as a booty arm?

With regards,

Jan
The Netherlands

 

[mrfarb]

There are photos of Dutch rifles in German service, and this type of modification is one I would expect on a German used rifle, but as far as I know there are no documents regarding modifications like this. There is a photo on this forum of Norwegian Krag rifles with sling cut modification in German use, the photo is in this thread: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?4896-Norwegian-Krag-period-picture&highlight=norwegian+krag

 

[RyanE]

I'm a big fan of the Dutch stuff so maybe I can help.

There are German drawings for the modification of Dutch bayonets apparently issued in November 1942, so it stands to reason that there are documents somewhere showing the procedure for the modification of the long rifles as well. A cutout was made in the stock, the lower swing swivel was removed and plugged, and the bayonet lugs were also usually cut to accept either the rifle or carbine bayonets. As far as I know, no such modifications were ever done on carbines aside from bluing of bolts during depot repair. The mods were probably done at the unit level per the regulations, and then issued to second rate formations and various security and police units across Europe (Netherlands, Poland, Russia, etc.)

That said, the sling modification in the above photo is not German IMO. I've seen stocks with a similar cutout and screw hole, and I think they are post-war Indonesian. I've attached photos of what I generally consider the "German" stock modification. It uses a custom sling (perhaps Dutch) and permanently attached friction buckle. The sling swivel on the bottom of the rear band is is still used as the forward attachment point.

Do a forum search as there are several photos posted here of Dutch rifles in German service. I've attached one of driver Gefreiter Josef Willeke, killed along with his boss Generalmajor Kussin and his aide Max Koster by British paratroopers in September 1944. Both Willeke and Korster were armed with Dutch carbines for self defense.

 

[jlj]

another sling cut m95

Here is my Dutch m95 modified to side sling. JL

 

[mrfarb]

Here is my Dutch m95 modified to side sling. JL

Now THAT looks German. I think the majority of them you could never know for sure unless they are depot marked? Even then there are fake depot stamps.

 

[RyanE]

Interesting. Any markings on that rear band? I don't think the Dutch ever manufactured anything like that. Bayo lug modified?

 

[jlj]

Rear band has 56(last 2 digits of rifle) on top and a small mark on the bottom. I don't know how a standard band would look, but this may be one that was reshaped to fit sideways? Also don't know what the bayonet lug should be like, but this is the same size as the carbines I have but the notch is on the other side. JL

 

[RyanE]

Rear band has 56(last 2 digits of rifle) on top and a small mark on the bottom. I don't know how a standard band would look, but this may be one that was reshaped to fit sideways? Also don't know what the bayonet lug should be like, but this is the same size as the carbines I have but the notch is on the other side. JL

Originally the swivel was on the bottom with the two digit serial number on the left and acceptance (a small Crown over a letter) on the right. From your description, it sounds like the band has been reshaped. Something new to add to the mental file on Dutch rifles!

A modified bayonet lug would be cut on both sides, so yours is original.

 

[Amberg]

Hallo,
My G95 (h) manual (dated 7/16/41) only describes the original sling swivel, pg. 8 top. No German modifications.
Wolfgang

 

[John Wall]

ex-German and ex-Japanese M95 long rifles

I also have a German-altered Dutch Model 1895 long rifle, very similar to the rifles posted above. The full length picture below shows it alongside another altered M95, an ex-KNIL rifle with a bayonet bar for a Japanese Arisaka bayonet, also shown close-up in the last photo.

The remainder of the photos depict just the German-modified rifle. The main altered features are the side-mounted sling slot cut in the buttstock, the blued-reddish (?) bolt, and the renumbering of the buttstock in the German manner and location. The magazine assembly and both barrel bands (both in the Dutch configuration) are serialed "14" and do not match the rest of the rifle. The magazine assembly is a late WW I piece hurriedly manufactured at Hembrug with circular machining marks very evident.
Regards,
John

 

[gelderenj]

Ryan

You stated: “There are German drawings for the modification of Dutch bayonets apparently issued in November 1942, so it stands to reason that there are documents somewhere showing the procedure for the modification of the long rifles as well”

Do you know where I can find these mod documents?

With regards,

Jan

I'm a big fan of the Dutch stuff so maybe I can help.

There are German drawings for the modification of Dutch bayonets apparently issued in November 1942, so it stands to reason that there are documents somewhere showing the procedure for the modification of the long rifles as well. A cutout was made in the stock, the lower swing swivel was removed and plugged, and the bayonet lugs were also usually cut to accept either the rifle or carbine bayonets. As far as I know, no such modifications were ever done on carbines aside from bluing of bolts during depot repair. The mods were probably done at the unit level per the regulations, and then issued to second rate formations and various security and police units across Europe (Netherlands, Poland, Russia, etc.)

That said, the sling modification in the above photo is not German IMO. I've seen stocks with a similar cutout and screw hole, and I think they are post-war Indonesian. I've attached photos of what I generally consider the "German" stock modification. It uses a custom sling (perhaps Dutch) and permanently attached friction buckle. The sling swivel on the bottom of the rear band is is still used as the forward attachment point.

Do a forum search as there are several photos posted here of Dutch rifles in German service. I've attached one of driver Gefreiter Josef Willeke, killed along with his boss Generalmajor Kussin and his aide Max Koster by British paratroopers in September 1944. Both Willeke and Korster were armed with Dutch carbines for self defense.

 

[gelderenj]

rifle sling butstock mods

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your valuable input.

At first:
Ryan, you stated: “There are German drawings for the modification of Dutch bayonets apparently issued in November 1942, so it stands to reason that there are documents somewhere showing the procedure for the modification of the long rifles as well”

Do you know where I can find these mod documents?

Further on, what do we have:



It seems to me that the mod of the rifles of Ryan and John are the same, but a cut of was (later on?) made on the rifle of John to fit the standard K98 sling. It looks indeed like if the rifle of Ryan still uses the standard Dutch M95 sling but in a different manner. When you take a close look at the photo’s (thank you gentlemen!) you can see the same traces op the slot of the stock that indicates that is drilled in the same manner.

The mod of JLJ looks different. The rectangular slot is smaller. This seems the be primarily intended for use with a standard K98 sling.

The mod of the Dutch museum at Delft looks similar to a picture Niels had sended me by e-mail. But when you take a closer look: it’s not. Even when you try to put the copper stripe of the rifle of Niels on that of the museum: it’s still not the same.

I have 3 good books (Army, Navy, Kolonial) that treatises the Dutch M95 in dept. None of them mentions a stock with a drilled trough slot for fitting the sling sideways. By the Dutch, this was always solved in the manner as on the photo below.



As mrfarb stated: this type of modification(s) is one I would expect on a German used rifle. It looks like we have 4 or 5 different mod’s for the same manner of fastening the sling. Based on the documents I’m familiar with, I think they are indeed all German booty rifle mods.

Ryan, what do you mean with: “The mods were probably done at the unit level per the regulations”. Army unit level?

With regards,

Jan

I also have a German-altered Dutch Model 1895 long rifle, very similar to the rifles posted above. The full length picture below shows it alongside another altered M95, an ex-KNIL rifle with a bayonet bar for a Japanese Arisaka bayonet, also shown close-up in the last photo.

The remainder of the photos depict just the German-modified rifle. The main altered features are the side-mounted sling slot cut in the buttstock, the blued-reddish (?) bolt, and the renumbering of the buttstock in the German manner and location. The magazine assembly and both barrel bands (both in the Dutch configuration) are serialed "14" and do not match the rest of the rifle. The magazine assembly is a late WW I piece hurriedly manufactured at Hembrug with circular machining marks very evident.
Regards,
John

 

[RyanE]

I only have a blurry copy of the SG104(h) (that is, No3 and No4 carbine bayonets) modification drawing. Found it on a Dutch bayonet website. The angles and measurements are a little hard to make out, but they appear to match my modified SG104(h).

By unit level, I mean that the modifications may have been done by armorers at the regimental, divisional, etc. levels of the army or police, and not by the HZa depot system. Cutting the sling slot would probably not have been too difficult, though I am not sure about reshaping the rear band.

There is no proof one way or the other, but none I have ever heard of have been depot marked in any way. I remain of the opinion that the sling slots with screw holes in them are not German done.

 

[S/42]

Just diverting from German modified/used for a moment, my KNIL/NEIF leave-behind /abandon, with Japanese Arisaka bayonet modification has a butt plaque that reads 1-Ku 232 (I understad the 232). What does the Ku mean?

The rifle is a 1919 Hembrug, with the handguard that abutts the lower band (band does NOT fit over the handguard). Missing the handguard if anyone knows of a spare?

 

[RyanE]

Just diverting from German modified/used for a moment, my KNIL/NEIF leave-behind /abandon, with Japanese Arisaka bayonet modification has a butt plaque that reads 1-Ku 232 (I understad the 232). What does the Ku mean?

1-Ku is the 1e compagnie kust- en luchtdoelartillerie.

 

[S/42]

So that's an AA unit?

 

[RyanE]

So that's an AA unit?

Coastal and Antiaircraft.

 

[gelderenj]

Dutch bayonet website

I only have a blurry copy of the SG104(h) (that is, No3 and No4 carbine bayonets) modification drawing. Found it on a Dutch bayonet website. The angles and measurements are a little hard to make out, but they appear to match my modified SG104(h).

By unit level, I mean that the modifications may have been done by armorers at the regimental, divisional, etc. levels of the army or police, and not by the HZa depot system. Cutting the sling slot would probably not have been too difficult, though I am not sure about reshaping the rear band.

There is no proof one way or the other, but none I have ever heard of have been depot marked in any way. I remain of the opinion that the sling slots with screw holes in them are not German done.

I found the Dutch bayonet website with the mod drawing of which Ryan told us:
http://www.muetstege.com

 

[S/42]

I managed to find and purchase a handguard, but it is the type that goes under the sling band at the front of the handguard (rather than abutts it). Does ANYONE have a spare larger sling band so I don't have to modify the handguard? The rifle is the same as John Wall's first rifle in the stacked image - a Japanese modified M.95 ex-KNIL - but the handguard is the regular homeland style.

Help appreciated!

 

[S/42]

John W, regarding the "Japanese" modified M.95's - is there any conclusive evidence these were done by the Japanese in occupation Indonesia? All previous evidence I have seen points to post-WW2 Indonesian indifenous modification of extant rifles (and including SMLE's) to fit the very prevalent Arisaka bayonet.

The modification to the nosecap seems just too well done to be wartime expediency IMHO. I believe Doc AV has also got evidence of post-war modification, as well as documents regarding RSAF Lithgow modification of M95's to .303 for geurillas during the war.

Thoughts?