German helmet lot numbers 1935-1945 ongoing research
- Thread starter M45
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Waffenmeister44
Active member
Single Decal Heer, Zinc plated liner with SHeep Skin media (leather, Sheepskin, Goatskin) Rough Texture Green Grey (Basically Feldgrau) ET Decal meaning Decal produced by Eisenhüttenwerke Thale (Same company as CKL) RBstrap meaning RBNR stamped chinstrap 0/0894/0007.
M45
Well-known member
I avoid the word 'feld-grau' in my book because it is too general. It could refer to anything. I prefer green-gray, blue-gray and slate gray.
The study of the slate gray for helmet paint is interesting. In Goodapple Vol. II he states that slate gray was introduced in February 1942, with some of the last M40 helmets painted in this color. Further research reveals the Quist, EF and NS helmet factories were the first to use slate gray at that time, with ckl and hkp not using it until after the august 43 decal drops, probably in early 1944.
The study of the slate gray for helmet paint is interesting. In Goodapple Vol. II he states that slate gray was introduced in February 1942, with some of the last M40 helmets painted in this color. Further research reveals the Quist, EF and NS helmet factories were the first to use slate gray at that time, with ckl and hkp not using it until after the august 43 decal drops, probably in early 1944.
It's as you write, I've looked through a lot of pages and different possibilities of buying the colour marked as "FELDGRAU" or RAL6006. It is many shades, from darker green to darker grey-green. It's chaos altogether
On M42, as part of the reconstruction, I will put this shade, also marked as RAL6006. It's dark, more grey than green. I'm still looking for a way to create a texture on it, at least some, so it's not completely smooth.
And also thinking about what to do with the M40. What color could be there if it is M40 Q64 DN361? what are all the other data exactly for this lot?
p.s. I would like to support and buy your book as a pdf. Can we agree somehow directly? What would be the price?
Thank you!
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M45
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PDF FILE - 11 GERMAN HELMET LOT NUMBERS 1935-1945 REVISION - 11 COMPUTER FILE | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for PDF FILE - 11 GERMAN HELMET LOT NUMBERS 1935-1945 REVISION - 11 COMPUTER FILE at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
They have texturing in spray paint now. You may be able to get some at the hardware store, apply it and then paint over it with your preferred color/shade.
M40 Q64 DN361 is where the last factory SD Heer helmet is found. Green gray and slate gray were used in addition to blue gray at this time. No decal helmets dominate from this point on.
M45
Well-known member
PDF FILE - 11 GERMAN HELMET LOT NUMBERS 1935-1945 REVISION - 11 COMPUTER FILE | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for PDF FILE - 11 GERMAN HELMET LOT NUMBERS 1935-1945 REVISION - 11 COMPUTER FILE at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
They have texturing in spray paint now. You may be able to get some at the hardware store, apply it and then paint over it with your preferred color/shade.
M40 Q64 DN361 is where the last factory SD Heer helmet is found. Green gray and slate gray were used in addition to blue gray at this time. No decal helmets dominate from this point on.
M40 Q64 DN360 SD HEER BF ZSH RTGG RM
M40 Q64 DN360 DD POLI BD ZSH RM RTGG
M40 Q64 DN360 ND SLATE 42ZSH RM (GENERAL ISSUE)
M40 Q64 DN360 ND RTGG ZSH RM (GENERAL ISSUE)
M40 Q64 DN361 SD HEER BF 43ZPG-FWM RM SLATE STRAP-Henseler&Co LAST SD HEER
QUIST M40 DN-SERIES DECAL DROP ZONE ENDS (28 AUGUST 1943)
NO-DECAL AND DD FIELD POLICE HELMETS HENCEFORTH
M40 Q64 DN361 DD POLI BD ZPG RM SLATE, RTGG RBNr.STRAP-0/0250/0795
M40 Q64 DN361 ND SLATE ZSH RM RTGG
M40 Q64 DN361 ND SLATE ZSH RM TO SI “Hirdensbedriftsv A|rn”/ Alarmenheter NORWAY LS
M40 Q64 DN361 BEAD ND SFDB RM SATIN FINISH DARK BLUE (USE UNKNOWN)
M40 Q64 DN362 DD POLI BD 43ZPG RM 41STRAP-G.SINGER RTGG
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Are all these abbreviations described in the book in more detail what each one means?PDF FILE - 11 GERMAN HELMET LOT NUMBERS 1935-1945 REVISION - 11 COMPUTER FILE | eBay
Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for PDF FILE - 11 GERMAN HELMET LOT NUMBERS 1935-1945 REVISION - 11 COMPUTER FILE at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!www.ebay.com
They have texturing in spray paint now. You may be able to get some at the hardware store, apply it and then paint over it with your preferred color/shade.
M40 Q64 DN361 is where the last factory SD Heer helmet is found. Green gray and slate gray were used in addition to blue gray at this time. No decal helmets dominate from this point on.
M40 Q64 DN360 SD HEER BF ZSH RTGG RM
M40 Q64 DN360 DD POLI BD ZSH RM RTGG
M40 Q64 DN360 ND SLATE 42ZSH RM (GENERAL ISSUE)
M40 Q64 DN360 ND RTGG ZSH RM (GENERAL ISSUE)
M40 Q64 DN361 SD HEER BF 43ZPG-FWM RM SLATE STRAP-Henseler&Co LAST SD HEER
QUIST M40 DN-SERIES DECAL DROP ZONE ENDS (28 AUGUST 1943)
NO-DECAL AND DD FIELD POLICE HELMETS HENCEFORTH
M40 Q64 DN361 DD POLI BD ZPG RM SLATE, RTGG RBNr.STRAP-0/0250/0795
M40 Q64 DN361 ND SLATE ZSH RM RTGG
M40 Q64 DN361 ND SLATE ZSH RM TO SI “Hirdensbedriftsv A|rn”/ Alarmenheter NORWAY LS
M40 Q64 DN361 BEAD ND SFDB RM SATIN FINISH DARK BLUE (USE UNKNOWN)
M40 Q64 DN362 DD POLI BD 43ZPG RM 41STRAP-G.SINGER RTGG
M45
Well-known member
'That book is of no use at all.'
From the early days that helmet forum was managed by elitists. If the book had been written by one of their own comrades and not an outsider (like me), it would have been the greatest thing since sliced bread. I would venture to say those who criticize the book the most are those who have not read it.
I believe the poster is the co-author with Ken N. on his second helmet decal book.
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M45
Well-known member
Further discussion from above.
I think Anders is locked into the classical novice interpretation of lot numbers, that a lot # on a bare shell can tell you branch and decal type the shell was originally completed as, and that probably factory records supported this notion.
I dispel this notion on page 3 of the lot# book:
NOTE TO COLLECTORS
The lot number book first became available several years ago. During that time, it seems that some
collectors have gotten the erroneous idea that lot numbers themselves can determine which branch of
service a particular helmet shell had originally been factory completed as, as if the lot number on a bare
helmet shell could be cross-referenced with the lot number list to determine the original factory
configuration of that particular helmet shell. This idea is simply not true. A lot number is not a serial
number. The lot number tells us which batch in a series the particular helmet was produced from.
In the section labeled ‘ABOUT LOT NUMBERS’, it is mentioned that there is no direct manufacturing
relationship between a helmet’s lot number, and it’s factory paint/decal configuration.
Lot numbers (in conjunction with known manufacturing dates) are, however, useful in cluing us in as to
about when in time the particular helmet shell was produced. This incidental manufacturing relationship can
tie in generally with decal configurations (DD, SD, ND) and styles of paint and components. They are also
helpful in determining whether a particular helmet likely did or did not have a factory decal applied.
Anders seems to be an intelligent man. After all, he co-authored Ken N.'s second decal book.
He claims that the novice understanding is the wrong perception of what the book actually is. Yes, that's fine. There's no disagreement that novices are drawing the wrong conclusions. (The book was intended for advanced collectors, those who know from the get-go what makes a helmet original). What's not fine is his statement that the book is of no use at all. Suddenly, he does not sound very intelligent.
I think Anders is locked into the classical novice interpretation of lot numbers, that a lot # on a bare shell can tell you branch and decal type the shell was originally completed as, and that probably factory records supported this notion.
I dispel this notion on page 3 of the lot# book:
NOTE TO COLLECTORS
The lot number book first became available several years ago. During that time, it seems that some
collectors have gotten the erroneous idea that lot numbers themselves can determine which branch of
service a particular helmet shell had originally been factory completed as, as if the lot number on a bare
helmet shell could be cross-referenced with the lot number list to determine the original factory
configuration of that particular helmet shell. This idea is simply not true. A lot number is not a serial
number. The lot number tells us which batch in a series the particular helmet was produced from.
In the section labeled ‘ABOUT LOT NUMBERS’, it is mentioned that there is no direct manufacturing
relationship between a helmet’s lot number, and it’s factory paint/decal configuration.
Lot numbers (in conjunction with known manufacturing dates) are, however, useful in cluing us in as to
about when in time the particular helmet shell was produced. This incidental manufacturing relationship can
tie in generally with decal configurations (DD, SD, ND) and styles of paint and components. They are also
helpful in determining whether a particular helmet likely did or did not have a factory decal applied.
Anders seems to be an intelligent man. After all, he co-authored Ken N.'s second decal book.
He claims that the novice understanding is the wrong perception of what the book actually is. Yes, that's fine. There's no disagreement that novices are drawing the wrong conclusions. (The book was intended for advanced collectors, those who know from the get-go what makes a helmet original). What's not fine is his statement that the book is of no use at all. Suddenly, he does not sound very intelligent.
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M45
Well-known member
More about lot numbers...
The book does not help to authenticate any helmet. The book is just a list of survived helmets, nothing more nothing less than a catalog.
Poor Andrea. He and his friends just do not understand the lot number book is so much more than that. It was probably a factor in helping to expose the Sham Pain SS ruins fraud, a fraud that had been promoted and defended on their forum for some 7 years.
The book does not help to authenticate any helmet. The book is just a list of survived helmets, nothing more nothing less than a catalog.
Poor Andrea. He and his friends just do not understand the lot number book is so much more than that. It was probably a factor in helping to expose the Sham Pain SS ruins fraud, a fraud that had been promoted and defended on their forum for some 7 years.
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