Gewehr 98 H Spandau 1917 2646

[PrayingMantis]

Got this off Mike, who was gracious enough to hold it for me for a while. Very nice for the study to have a Hannover depot build with a matching bolt. From what I can tell, the bolt is almost all c/B) acceptance, like many armorers bolts. (Though I’m wondering if we should start referring to these as Arsenal or Manufacturer Spares rather than armorers spares. Seems like they show up so often from 1917 on their intended purpose had to be wider.)

The Gewehr itself is quite nice with a very solid stock. It’s a mix of salvaged and spare parts which are numbered to the receiver. The trigger sear seems to be the only unnumbered but accepted spare. Here are the numbers:

H SPANDAU 1917
Receiver 2646 Siemens & Halske c/U
Barrel 2646 c/R
Front Sight 44 c/
Rear Sight Leaf 67 c/B)
Sight Slider
Sight Slider Tabs
Ejector Box 46? c/R)
Trigger Sear c/N
Front Barrel Band 87 c/?
Rear Barrel Band 43 c/B
Trigger Guard 2646 c/W
Trigger Guard Screws unnumbered, 6? c/B)
Floor Plate 46 c/W)
Follower 46 c/N
Stock 2646 c/B
Handguard 387
Buttplate 2646 c/B H K
Bayonet Lug 70
Cleaning Rod 53
Bolt Body 2646
Extractor 46 c/B)
Safety 46 c/π
Cocking Piece 46 c/B Clover
Bolt Sleeve 46 c/B)
Firing Pin armorer Clover

 

[PrayingMantis]

The barrel and sights. Sight components appear to all be salvaged, except the slider, which may not have a number.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Triggerguard, bands, and bayonet lug. Bands and lug appear to be salvaged.

 

[PrayingMantis]

The stock and metal. The stock features a large A for maple, though it's not in the usual spot. Has anyone else observed this? The grain pattern is interesting and certainly looks maple.

 

[PrayingMantis]

The bolt. Note the maker trademark on the pin that goes in the sleeve.

 

[chrisftk]

Cyrus, that thing is a freaking gem. So glad you got it! The Siemens receiver is great. The markings on the underside are interesting. I'm curious if they signify anything, they are way more linear than you normally see and seem to signify something.

The mix of spare and salvaged parts fits the bill on these.

 

[CLG]

I agree with Chris. The bottom receiver markings are unlike anything I have seen and appear to go well beyond the usual inspector markings. Interested to hear any ideas.

 

[feldmütze]

I like it but I'm kinda partial. Cyrus will be a great caretaker.

 

[hale1940]

This is a wonderful rifle. I especially love the maple stock.

 

[chrisftk]

This is a wonderful rifle. I especially love the maple stock.

So, the "A" on the keel is actually more likely a subcontractor of armorer stocks-- I have an identical one on one of my "H" assembled rifles. I was discussing this point a while back with a couple folks and that was the consensus


To my knowledge, WMO was the only maker to test Maple, and only then in very small batches in 1917. The "A" was on the right side of the stock. They started using juvenile walnut as well, and it tended to look similar to beech.

 

[mauser1908]

Cyrus, I absolutely love this gun, very glad you got it. I think this gun is super important, I like your terminology in referring to the parts as manufacture spares. Could it be possible that the primary role of these parts were to provide capability across markers when they were filling orders? I think we need to reexamine our group chat on these, but we've all observed; albeit outside of the Sterngewehr program, spare parts were floated from maker to maker. These appear to have ended up on both Sterngewehren and regular guns. It seems like Spandau, Mauser, and Amberg were big players in this regard, a case would be all the Amberg stocks that end up Spandau rifles or Amberg trigger-guards on Erfurt rifles. It makes you wonder if that's why we see such a wide array of acceptance on 'H' guns, we know Spandau transferred their rifle production here, makes you wonder if they were building guns largely out of these manufacturer and subcontracted spares, then just dumped all the parts on Hannover when they got out of the rifle game. Another neat aspect is they were definitely bluing the guns in house, your trigger is guard bluing is identical in shade and color to mine, the shoddy job around the rear sight is identical too; you probably remember as it was your gun. Every Hannover newly assembled Hannover gun seems to have been signed off by the same supervisor 'K', I was keeping track of that for a while and I don't recall ever seeing anyone different overseeing the process. It would be interesting to see how the guns that weren't built from scratch were verified.

 

[joryfreeburg]

Another gem that Mike owed…. Great rifle! I love the maple stock as well

 

[chrisftk]

Another gem that Mike owed…. Great rifle! I love the maple stock as well

It's Beech though-- here's the money shot:

See the scaling in the wood-- it's textbook beech. Just a particularly pretty one. What's interesting though is that there is not a "B" on the right side of the stock-- it wasn't 100%. I know Cyrus has a JPS without a side B.

 

[feldmütze]

That's interesting on the stock wood. Never too old to learn, lol. Any pics of those '17 WMO's with maple stocks available?

 

[chrisftk]

That's interesting on the stock wood. Never too old to learn, lol. Any pics of those '17 WMO's with maple stocks available?

Here's Sam's Maple 17 WMO.

Full Report WMO 1917 with Maple Stock

Here is the actual data and some detailed photos on the WMO 1917. It turned out to be all matching with the exception of the bolt sleeve. Super excited to have it in hand probably the rarest rifle I own, it turned out to be all matching less the bolt sleeve. The only downside is the crack in the...

www.k98kforum.com

 

[pzjgr]

Damn, 2 incredible Spandau''s in a row...very cool example...I need to get more imperial stuff!

 

[feldmütze]

Here's Sam's Maple 17 WMO.

Full Report WMO 1917 with Maple Stock

Here is the actual data and some detailed photos on the WMO 1917. It turned out to be all matching with the exception of the bolt sleeve. Super excited to have it in hand probably the rarest rifle I own, it turned out to be all matching less the bolt sleeve. The only downside is the crack in the...

www.k98kforum.com

What a great gewehr. I don't remember seeing it but that doesn't surprise me anymore, lol

 

[Warrior1354]

A very cool rifle and one I did not know Mike had. I guess it was forgotten in the back of his safe somewhere!

 

[PrayingMantis]

Thanks for the comments, everyone!

As to the stock, i think we should start tracking and maybe at some point do a thread for every stock with A on the keel. The location likely bears the acceptance of the stock producer (rather than rifle finisher) based on what i have observed, but we need more examples to confirm or deny this. I have a suspicion that the B marked Beech stocks on the other Hannovers, which are marked c/B on the keel, are Spandau production that didn't make it into regular production before they dropped rifles.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Cyrus, I absolutely love this gun, very glad you got it. I think this gun is super important, I like your terminology in referring to the parts as manufacture spares. Could it be possible that the primary role of these parts were to provide capability across markers when they were filling orders? I think we need to reexamine our group chat on these, but we've all observed; albeit outside of the Sterngewehr program, spare parts were floated from maker to maker. These appear to have ended up on both Sterngewehren and regular guns. It seems like Spandau, Mauser, and Amberg were big players in this regard, a case would be all the Amberg stocks that end up Spandau rifles or Amberg trigger-guards on Erfurt rifles. It makes you wonder if that's why we see such a wide array of acceptance on 'H' guns, we know Spandau transferred their rifle production here, makes you wonder if they were building guns largely out of these manufacturer and subcontracted spares, then just dumped all the parts on Hannover when they got out of the rifle game. Another neat aspect is they were definitely bluing the guns in house, your trigger is guard bluing is identical in shade and color to mine, the shoddy job around the rear sight is identical too; you probably remember as it was your gun. Every Hannover newly assembled Hannover gun seems to have been signed off by the same supervisor 'K', I was keeping track of that for a while and I don't recall ever seeing anyone different overseeing the process. It would be interesting to see how the guns that weren't built from scratch were verified.

Great thoughts, Sam. The matching bolt is especially important on this one, as the acceptance stamps match perfectly with all of the "armorers" bolts that are floating around. It reinforces the specialization theory that we've been bouncing around. I think you're dead on about increasing capability, and as Nathaniel mentioned a while back, the way the Germans managed their machining operations (set up to do one part at a time) lends itself to specialization. (Or, if not full on specialization, at least production runs that exceeded immediate need for a certain part then were disseminated as needed.)