Hicks Makes Long Awaited Forum Debut on the Champagne Rune

I think the "how much needed" is the cost to do the helmet under a microscope Jo. As a collector if your going too spend well over $10,000 on a lid that protects your pumpkin you better be damn sure its real.

Still this is a huge nightmare for the SS collectors out there. Of course the rule with SS items has always been 90% of the items are fake. Hell they were faking SA daggers in 1946, they were being made in Spain.
 
To the first part of the question.
The word "hard" does not come into it, and it would be instantly recognizable from about 60x-onwards magnification with a decent microscope. One that can show a large area in the same image, or in a composite image. (Like a surface scan of a 1-2mm surface area)
A 3D microscope would be better of course, but a simple good inspection scope with natural lighting would do the job in an instant.

You`d need something stable with either a boom or long ajustable stand, as a helmet is "somewhat" larger than a medal :laugh: but apart from that there would be absolutely nothing to it.

Not sure about the last part, how much would be needed?

As to the last question, you answered it, how much needed = minimum amount of magnification needed to discern and distinguish an airbrushed SS faux "decal" from a real celluloid based decal/transfer. The next question is this: my understanding of magnification, particularly microscopes, is that they've been around in one form or another very briefly, like only 600+ years, so is it understandable then why it took over 40 years for anyone to do a magnified/microscopic study of the Champagne Rune "decal"? Had such an objective analysis been done in conjunction with an SS book project, say by a semi-pro with help from someone experienced in decal applications and airbrushing (e.g., a graphic artist or good body shop striper) do you think it would have definitely revealed these as airbrushed humpjobs selling for $4500 to $24,000 long ago? Is it possible for someone, particularly an author writing a book on SS helmets, to simply examine one of these under high magnification once a controversy started brewing? Would that be very expensive and time consuming? Probably no more expensive than renting a $25,000 handheld XRF and tazing hundreds of helmets and collecting data from around the country? Would you think someone prudent would do this after credible evidence was posted on a forum showing a $20,000+ SS double decal helmet may have an airbrushed faux "decal" on it? Thanks for your input!
 
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As to the last question, you answered it, how much needed = minimum amount of magnification needed to discern and distinguish an airbrushed SS faux "decal" from a real celluloid based decal/transfer. The next question is this: my understanding of magnification, particularly microscopes, is that they've been around in one form or another very briefly, like only 600+ years, so is it understandable then why it took over 40 years for anyone to do a magnified/microscopic study of the Champagne Rune "decal"? Had such an objective analysis been done in conjunction with an SS book project, say by a semi-pro with help from someone experienced in decal applications and airbrushing (e.g., a graphic artist or good body shop striper) do you think it would have definitely revealed these as airbrushed humpjobs selling for $4500 to $24,000 long ago? Is it possible for someone, particularly an author writing a book on SS helmets, to simply examine one of these under high magnification once a controversy started brewing? Would that be very expensive and time consuming? Probably no more expensive than renting a $25,000 handheld XRF and tazing hundreds of helmets and collecting data from around the country? Would you think someone prudent would do this after credible evidence was posted on a forum showing a $20,000+ SS double decal helmet may have an airbrushed faux "decal" on it? Thanks for your input!

Well 30-50x would let you see whats going on, but if you wanted images for a book or article, then I`d say you need to get down to 60-80x, and again here, you`d need to be able to capture a fairy large area all at once at that depth, or at least be able to stitch together a few images in series to get a nice image.

You wouldn`t even need anyone with experience, as the detailed images would reveal how the item was created.

The only problem you would have, would be if originals were airbrushed onto a thin sheet of celluloid.
But they were certainly not, they would have been transferred onto the celluloid using a different procedure.
So, whether that was screen-printing, tampondruck, offset, by way of a huge rubber stamp or even if each decal was handpainted onto the celluloid by a GESTAPO officer wearing a minidress, whatever, it will show you how it was created under high magnification.

So, if a decal is spray-painted, you will see this under magnification. If it is printed on a LaserJet printer, you`ll see it. If it was photocopied, you`ll see it. Simply because all methods are very different.
Maybe not to the naked eye, but under high magnification they would reveal themselves.

Reminds me a bit of the paper 1932 SA badge I exposed while back. (They are still selling as genuine even today) Printed on a desk jet using a printing method that was not even invented in 1932.
You can print money fig 3.jpg

I have never handled a helmet, ever, apart from my motorcycle helmet, yet I would bet anyone, any amount of money they wished, that I would be able to correctly identify the way any decal was created. And I could show it in a matter of minutes, and prove it conclusively. What that would mean I don`t know, because I have no idea how period decals were made. (Maybe a GESTAPO officer wearing a pink mini dress did actually hand paint each one) But simple micro imagery would certainly show you quickly what the decal was.

The answer to all the above is no. What possible reason would someone, who has already made a name for themselves, need to be bothered by a stupid thing like microscopy. I know that it has saved the Art industry billions of dollars, and helps send people to jail around the modern world daily. I know that it has foiled banknote and cheque forgers plans for decades, but when it comes to Third Reich artifacts, this is not how it is done. Opinion and a good story take precedence over anything as trivial as forensic evidence. This is not X Files or CSI Miami, this is just a hobby, meant to be taken with a pinch of salt and one or two of Walter`s bulbs. There is very little common sense when it comes to swastika adorned items.
 
Thank you Micro Jo. So the 600+ year old technology was easily available all along to identify the Champagne Rune as airbrushed art and it took DougB, a late comer to that hobby, to do it in 2015 when he had his suspicions. Yet we have the SS lid intelligentsia running all around going to great lengths and expense to make their helmets the "baselines" for originality and trying to make an XRF ray gun work to sell COAs? Presumably Mr. Hicks stands behind the claim that the XRF lid tazer authenticated these Champagne Runes as having copper in them, which "may explain the Champagne color" so they don't need no stinking microscope. DougB's study did just about what you said. I guess that Champagne Rune chickenwire M.40 lid is in the fake sticky section at GWH2 because DougB's microscopic examination findings trumped a story about a 74 year old vet bringing it back.
 
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Really disappointed by the decision of GHW to close all CR threads.
The Hicks 'lapdogs', of which a few are dealers, had laid the 'groundbait' by suggesting he is an honourable man, good friend and totally innocent of any wrong doing. Then came the 'big fish' to show his colours.
Hicks had the opportunity to answer the basic questions many would have liked to read. He did not address those questions, just went on a personal attack (against forum rules) and continued to portray himself as an honourable fellow who has been slandered against.
Threads were then all closed..preventing any feedback or balanced reply.

Personally, deeply saddened by the voices of respected dealers, Hicks himself, for failing to answer the obvious questions and by GHW for closing the threads. It has just given Hicks a soapbox to portray his innocence and suppress the truth. Due to his ego could not openly say he had made a mistake.

EF
 
I agree EF. IMHO, a very poor attempt at blame and misdirection by Hicks and a wasted opportunity to address these very real and unresolved issues in a substantive manner. I guess in the mind of Hicks he's the "victim" here and the "shame" is on us who question and request straight answers concerning serious issues, the most significant in helmet collecting history. The shame here is in the attempts to shovel dirt on this mess while attacking those who simply want the truth to come out.

Check out this recitation of the history of this:
https://germanhelmetvault.com/2018/01/27/the-champagne-rune-fraud/

Pulled back up at WAF with the XRFacts connection. The bigwigs were against it all privately of course. WalterB gets credits for being a steadfast and open Shampain Ruin critic (as opposed to a double secret WAF private critic, which is of no help to the hobby):
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380924
 

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Maui has now popped up and appears to be saying his Champagne Rune is real, not airbrushed, because the pie chart sez so:

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380924&page=4

Jeremy_96eccb_2523360.gif
 
A "healthy discussion is encouraged" but without "throwing other names around." :facepalm:
 

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I first started collecting WWII German military items when I was 10. My collecting mentor (Paul Abare) told me back then, 31 years ago, that I should always be leery of anything SS that it was the most reproduced and faked items out there. The only 3 legit SS items I own are 2 mess hall spoons my great uncle brought back from the SS mess hall at Dachau and a Gew98 SS conversion (not matching). Unless I am getting the item locally where I can study it, or it is coming from someone I know well, I am not wading into that minefield.

I suspect that the monetary and legal ramifications of this fraud are such that KH will not ever speak about it. The sheer number of lids sold, as authentic, and money which has changed hands is enough to get him close to 20 years. The funds derived from his fraud, being deposited into any account, constitutes money laundering.
 
What's funny is if you look at these Champagne Rune "decals" you can see the same artificial wear patterns / tool marks on them. This was noted at WAF and has been something raised previously about these. There are these skid marks and scratches focused on the decals but not around them. The wear patterns looks the same, contrived, as by the same hand.
 
What's funny is if you look at these Champagne Rune "decals" you can see the same artificial wear patterns / tool marks on them. This was noted at WAF and has been something raised previously about these. There are these skid marks and scratches focused on the decals but not around them. The wear patterns looks the same, contrived, as by the same hand.


One man or woman made these?
Then perhaps the veteran from which Kelly H bought that chickenwire one in 1974 made them in his basement?
And before that veteran sold one to Kelly H, he gave a bunch to his former army buddies, thus we have ended up with whole bunch of these coming straight from a vet estate.
This must be the most logical explanation because it can't be that KH is involved he is a good guy, he is a victim himself.


But I doubt this theory myself because I'am pretty sure that the paint of this CRDD would be chemically tested in art lab it will be concluded that it is 1990's airbrush paint, the Airfix or Tamiya stuff, the type used by model makers.
 
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Left to right (Note not to scale due to different pics):
M.40 SS Champagne Rune NS wire wrap (Hicks from vet, 1974)
M.42 SS Champagne Rune ckl 8877 (after decal drop date), Hicks COA 06-07-2015
M.35 SS Champagne Rune NS double decal (Zam airbrush thread 2012)

View attachment 168817 View attachment 168818 View attachment 168819

Peter, the first "documented" appearance of a Champagne Rune appears to be of the helmets on Hicks' picnic table photograph of 1974, the chickenwire NS and another M.42. The photos of the "decals are above. Note the scratches and "wear" on them, 1974 to 2015.
 
By the way, I guess in defending the "Champagne Rune in the Tropics" Maui posted up about the "secret element" in original German helmet decals, asking if anyone wanted to know. When no one did, he posted the "secret element", vanadium, then later deleted it.

Maui secret element.JPG Maui secret element 2.JPG
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=380924&page=5

This "secret element" is no secret in steel made to defeat impacts and for ballistic purposes, e.g., like a German helmet. This is a problem with handheld XRF for this purpose we've pointed out from day one: it's over-penetrating and reading what's in the steel, not the decal or paint. It's called "substrata contamination". That's an element in the helmet steel. The readings (if any are even measured) from the decal and the paint are being mixed in with the underlying steel. You could get different readings from tazing the same lid decal at different places and angles. The amounts will vary based upon the steel makeup itself, and the thickness of the decal, paint, lacquer, etc. No "secret", not related to decals but the underlying steel, and that "secret" really confirms the fallacy of using XRF for this purpose. These guys were like voodoo shamans reading chicken bones in a bucket, but without the skill and qualifications of a voodoo shaman.
 
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On a positive note, at least it appears that maui is catching some much deserved flak on the WAF forum.
 
On a positive note, at least it appears that maui is catching some much deserved flak on the WAF forum.

Our own Mauser99 made a very wise and instructive comment ;) It's funny how everything we said and predicted came true. We were far ahead of the time, and all it took was a little common sense and no censorship. It's hugely ironic that the Champagne Rune and XRFacts, which seemed to be argued by their proponents as mutually authenticating did just the opposite.

Beyond the obvious, the reason for the opposition to XRFacts and what was attempted for me boils down to this question: Do we really want the authenticity/COA game in any area of collecting controlled by those who spearheaded that effort based upon what we've seen? Good grief.

These are, of course, all of my opinions only. Here is Hicks' explanation for why XRFacts failed. It is worth the read:
http://www.militarytrader.com/military-trader/10-questions-kelly-hicks

Hicks on XRF.JPG
 
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Although, it still appears that KH still doesn't want to accept the reality that it was facts, everyone could confirm with their own web searches, and not social media, that doomed XRFacts lid testing.
 
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