Inhereted 1912 98a restoral, need help/advice

[pdmayton]

The black is staining brought on by years and years of poor or non-existent care, mostly because of a lack of protectant oil on the steel. Yes, steel will stain. It is certainly not finish or you would have removed it by now with everything that you have been trying. There is nothing you can do about it short of sand paper or a file and you do not want to go there. It is really doing no harm and is to be expected, live with it and you will learn to love it. It just shows that the carbine has some age and collectors don't (usually) look down their noses at it.

Due to the sentimental value of it, I will never sell it but at the same time I want to preserve it, not alter it. I look at it as treating the rifle with the care it deserves. I am a perfectionist but I know that sometimes there is only so much I can do.

Remember, you don't want "pretty" on an ancient military rifle, it should look like it was used and cared for in it's active life, not shiny and glossy.

It's still being cared for cause it's still being actively used Removing all of the dirt and grim will prevent further pitting, and keep it shooting true, AAAAND, I like it looking pretty. Since I'm not getting rid of the rifle, I figure what I like is all that matters. BTW Just figured out how to completely disassemble the bolt last night except the "extractor collar(?)", you need a special tool to take it off?

 

[gew8805]

I am a perfectionist but I know that sometimes there is only so much I can do.

You have done all you can without doing damage. The black staining is there and can not be removed with removing metal, it will not cause any damage as it is so you are good to go as it stands now.

It's still being cared for cause it's still being actively used Removing all of the dirt and grim will prevent further pitting, and keep it shooting true, AAAAND, I like it looking pretty. Since I'm not getting rid of the rifle, I figure what I like is all that matters

When it comes down to it you are right, it is yours and you should treat it as you see fit. It is none of our business but from a preservationist's viewpoint, it is best to leave it as is as long as it is clean, functional and safe to use for it's intended purpose. Pretty is as pretty does but you can not undo it's last 90 years any more than you can it's active military use. They go hand in hand and you are lucky to have it.

 

[pdmayton]

You have done all you can without doing damage. The black staining is there and can not be removed with removing metal, it will not cause any damage as it is so you are good to go as it stands now.




When it comes down to it you are right, it is yours and you should treat it as you see fit. It is none of our business but from a preservationist's viewpoint, it is best to leave it as is as long as it is clean, functional and safe to use for it's intended purpose. Pretty is as pretty does but you can not undo it's last 90 years any more than you can it's active military use. They go hand in hand and you are lucky to have it.

Perhaps you misunderstood me or I didn't make myself clear. I don't want to undo anything. I just want it to be as clean as I can get it (don't worry this does not include sandpaper) to maintain it. I want to keep it as close to the way it was when it came from the factory as I can, this does not include replacing parts that have battle scars, battle scars give it character which I like, I just don't consider the dirt and grime that have collected on it as battle scars.

Fixed problem listed here earlier today. Operator Error.

 

[gew8805]

Please realize that, under no circumstances, was I saying that you should leave "the dirt and grime", removal of built up dirt is important, we all understand that. My main concern was with "AAAAND, I like it looking pretty". Not a problem. You have certainly worked hard and I am sure you are happy with it as is, no need to take it further, the black stains are now part of the gun and that is not a bad thing so no worries, it happens to old steel. As long as you realize that there is only so far that you can go than all is well. I've offered about all that I can, probably more than I should have. Enjoy.

 

[pdmayton]

Does anyone happen to know the meaning of the "5S" stamped on the buttplate of the rifle? Also curious is, on the bolt there is an "818" stamped above the s/n, I assume that is some kind of factory code but if anyone knows better share the knowledge.

BTW, my missing stacking hook shipped yesterday (woohoo), I will post pictures one it arrives.

 

[feldmütze]

Inherited 98a

Daniel, post pics of the 5S and 818 markings.

 

[pdmayton]

Daniel, post pics of the 5S and 818 markings.

I'm finding it impossible to take a clear picture of it but if it helps, on the buttstock plate its a large 5 with an s about half the size of the 5 stamped directly below it. The 818 is stamped directly above the serial number, it's the same size, font, and depth as the s/n
.

 

[pdmayton]

Just found out the following info...the "5S" is a depot mark...it was repaired at Koblenz during the war and the Barrel Steel came from Krupp Steel. Perhaps the stock repair was done by the Germans?

 

[Loewe]

The "5" is Koblenz, the "S" under it is the armorer that did the work.

I see you found the forum already, I had seen this thread but you had plenty of help so didn't reply, but the images you sent through email answered these questions.

You said you were interested in pursuing the hobby, no better place than the two links I sent you (here and TP forum). But also try and get a copy of Dieter Storz book, it will answer many questions and generate further interest in these rifles. Expensive but well worth the money. Books also save you money in the long run, avoiding mistakes, and "good" books rarely lose value.

Buy the books first and learn all you can on the "good" forums, then you will lessen costly errors buying rifles later.

Just found out the following info...the "5S" is a depot mark...it was repaired at Koblenz during the war and the Barrel Steel came from Krupp Steel. Perhaps the stock repair was done by the Germans?

 

[pdmayton]

Don't know if I'm missing some serious info or not, thought I found a rear sight/ rear sight leaf spring as a well known mauser parts dealer on an auction site said he had 1000+ of k98a rear sights. I ordered one because he said he would look for the one I need (s/n 11). Math tells me that 1 in every 100 sights would have the correct serial number as it is only two-digits. He reckons that "ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT THERE WERE APPROXIMATELY 500,000 98AZ BUILT; WHICH MEANS THERE WERE APPROXIMATELY 50 WITH SERIAL NUMBERS ENDING IN #11 AT THE TIME OF MANUFACTURE. IF ALL OF THESE RIFLES SURVIVED; WHICH THEY DID NOT; THEN THERE WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY 50 OF WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR ON PLANET EARTH. THE CHANCE OF ANY SOMEONE BEING STRUCK BY LIGHTNING IS ONE IN 4 MILLION. I BELIEVE THAT THE ODDS OF FINDING A 98AZ REAR SIGHT ARE NOT AS GOOD AS BEING STRUCK BY LIGHTNING OR WINNING THE LOTTERY."....Please tell me I'm not the insane one here. Needless to say I received sight with an incorrect serial number.

 

[Loewe]

I do not know whether you are insane or whether he is, but your dealer friend doesn't know shinola about the Kar.98a or production numbers.

In 1917 alone, Erfurt nearly made 500k Kar.98a rifles (carbines), and 1915-1918 they made enormous numbers, far in excess of a million rifles. Many have survived, they are not rare, though they can be tough to find 100% original some years. A Imperial 98a is much easier to find than most Gew.98's in top condition.

Generally, when someone uses the designation "Kar.98AZ", that is a good clue to not put too much faith in what they say. Especially if they are selling something.

... He reckons that "ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT THERE WERE APPROXIMATELY 500,000 98AZ BUILT; WHICH MEANS THERE WERE APPROXIMATELY 50 WITH SERIAL NUMBERS ENDING IN #11 AT THE TIME OF MANUFACTURE. IF ALL OF THESE RIFLES SURVIVED; WHICH THEY DID NOT; THEN THERE WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY 50 OF WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR ON PLANET EARTH. THE CHANCE OF ANY SOMEONE BEING STRUCK BY LIGHTNING IS ONE IN 4 MILLION. I BELIEVE THAT THE ODDS OF FINDING A 98AZ REAR SIGHT ARE NOT AS GOOD AS BEING STRUCK BY LIGHTNING OR WINNING THE LOTTERY."....

Please tell me I'm not the insane one here. Needless to say I received sight with an incorrect serial number.

 

[pdmayton]

I'm just saying, every one hundred rifles the last two digits are repeated which means 1% of all 98's share the same 2 digit s/n. Now it's true acceptance marks or something would not match but two digit s/ns would. correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Loewe]

Yes every 100 would have an "11" and consequently there were many thousands of "11" leaf springs made. Most would be made by Erfurt, during the war, so most would have the proper acceptance.

Imperial rifles are often "matched up" by collectors, because they only need match the last two digits on the small components. The trick is not so much finding the right number, but rather the right look and style. The fonts vary, the acceptance vary, and most of all the appearance (wear) and fit. German rifles were never perfectly interchangeable, though usually if you have enough parts you can get things to work, also being handy with tools and technical-mechanical knowledge helps.

Personally, I think the 98a the hardest rifle of the Modell98 series to "match up" or restore, especially the stocks and hanguards. Erfurt was a productive facility, but they also were one of the sloppiest. The parts they made are the least likely, imo, for interchangeability.