Into to kS98 Bayonet collector, etc

[seitengewehr98]

Greetings all. My name is Nate. I'm a combat infantry veteran, fast becoming a grumpy old one, fine artist, and most importantly, a passionate collector of the kurzes Seitengewehr model 1898 since 2000 ( which all educated collectors agree is the perfect bayonet as it is a combination of sleek design balancing form and function, the allure of the sawback, and the rich and complex history that the units the kS98s were issued to, and their corresponding markings, bring to the collector). I collect other Imperial German bayonets too, as well as their frogs and troddeln/portepee, but this is more out of necessity as it's fairly infrequent I am lucky enough to catch that brief moment where a nice kS98 is listed somewhere, and I happen to catch it in time.

I had originally intended on collecting at least one kS98 from each unit or unit type, examples of all manufacturers, Prussian, Bavarian, Saxon issued, and examples of modifications ( such as flashguards or sawbacks removed), but a focus on the units. It can get a bit excessive if I, for instance, instead of being satisfied with one Prussian telegraph example, I insist on one from each type of telegraph or other signal related unit ( so, one each from Prussian and Saxon telegraph battalions, Bavarian Telegraph Batallions, Bavarian Army corps Telegraph Abteilungen or detachments, Bavarian Corps Fernsprech detachments, Bavarian Telegraph Replacement companies, Reserve Telegraph Abteilungen, and finally Fortress Fersprech Kompagnien). I certainly won't say no to an example of each of these if the opportunity presents itself, and I have 6 different Telegraph marked examples at present, but my collection goals are comprehensive enough to be exceedingly challenging, but simple enough to avoid being the sole owner of 20 different Telegraph marked examples where so many collectors would be grateful for just one.

Anyway, I have not come close to completing this collection, and while I thought I still had plenty of time to complete it being 46 y/o, it appears I may not have the time I thought I would. For this reason, and the fact that my own collecting efforts over the last few years have yielded many missed opportunities and few examples of note, I decided I needed to adjust fire and once again take a more social approach to collecting.

Nor do I only seek to simply amass a pile of kS98s only to die and have the process repeat itself, I hope to contribute something to the body of knowledge, though this has proven extremely difficult. I remember when word spread about the East Asian Marine Detachment (O.M.D. M.C.A.) issued kS98 examples, it was probably far more exciting than it should've been. But, alas, I am the type of collector who's spent far more time attempting to make out deleted unit markings in my quest for knowledge than I care to publicly admit.

I have over 30 examples of issue kS98s in my collection, some stars, like my matching Ski Battalion example, I believe still the only matching example known. Schutztruppe Kamerun marked kS98s are the rarest of Colonial markings (putting aside the possible interpretation of P.T. marked examples as Polizei Togo), yet I have 4 different examples, 6 if you count P.T.K. and P.xxx. kS98s. But Deutsches Ost Afrika examples, I only know of 2 recorded sales on the internet thus far. I think you have to be in some cult-like club for the in crowd before one may behold that glorious Sch.D.O.A. marking. Then gently stroke the unit marking, tell it its a good unit marking, it's your favorite unit marking. Then take naps with your new kS98 so you can wake up and see first thing that you have a D.O.A. kS98! From here on out, it's nothin' but smooth sailing and total contentment!! Till an hour later when you realize there are still other unit markings you don't have...M.G.A., O.M.D., even a decent Flieger marked example, all continue to elude me to my great shame and woe (lol, this is definitely a first world problem). I'm being a bit sarcastic here, kS98s do not determine my happiness or fulfillment in life: but I'm fairly certain I would trade a kidney for a matching comp grip DOA marked example...

I posted a few general pics here I'm gonna try and create a few posts on various kS98 topics in the near future. If anyone reading this has managed to make it this far, I am immensely grateful, but I am likewise greatly concerned for your health. You should get out more. This has been nothing more than the typically excessive verbal vomitus that always issues forth from those sad humans whose 'tism for a particular topic has taken hold

 

[Slash]

Welcome Nate! I am a huge fan of the kS98 also. There are several members here with the same malady as well. Thanks for the posting some pics of your collection. Have several of the pieces you mention in my collection. These bayonets are very addictive (as you well know). Look forward to seeing more from your collection ......

 

[luftpirate]

Great first post. A lovely collection you have there!

 

[ersatz]

NATE, I don't know how I missed it but your collection of ks98's is Fantastic! Looking forward to to more!

 

[seitengewehr98]

Greatly appreciate the comments, lads. I have worked hard on it and probably spent a literal year of my life just scouring the internet for examples.

I was lucky to have started collecting right at the time when the net was relatively new and listings on eBay and elsewhere took off, but competition was limited. Back then, you basically just had to wait a few months for someone to list a 98/02 as a 98/05, or a PSS as a standard Police Bayonet, (ok, that only happened to me once, and they weren't worth the ridiculous prices I see them for today, though I wonder if anyone's really paying $5000, but I guess if people are willing to spend nearly 10k on essentially common Diplomatic Daggers, it's possible. Can you imagine how much, say, a Wurttemburg Landjager 1871 bayonet would be worth if it was priced exactly the same as corresponding 3rd Reich edged weapons of similar rarity, in this case manufactured in the hundreds? OK, side rant over).

Back then, my friends at the local Army/Navy collectors store in Exton called The Bunker, that I miss dearly, gave me a genuine numbered Panzer badge ( one of the unmarked Junker varieties) just for making it through OSUT infantry basic training before shipping off to war, and they sold me a silver anti-Partisan badge (also a Junker) for $500, before I quit collecting 3rd Reich to narrow my focus on a specific area. Just want to point out here that though I did once collect 3rd Reich militaria, I in no way support the ideology, in fact I passionately hate it. Having said that. it's been my experience that, while there certainly are some Nazi clowns who collect, the majority do not subscribe to the ideology.

Just remembered, the first 98/05 I bought turned out to be a 98/02 too! Ahh the good ol days. And unit markings, unit markings! Crazy unit marked bayonets were being listed on what seemed a daily rate. I used to have 3 different Sturm Kompagnie or Bat marked 84/98s, all of which came down the net in the space of a year. I parted with them thinking ''cuz kS98s are expensive and I ain't rich, thinking "oh, I'm sure I'll come across plenty." Yeah, crickets...

Not only was collecting great back then, but I had a couple of other collectors really help my collection, none more so than Ron Riede. I'm sure you all know his site bayonetsonline, but go check it out anyway.

Here's a question for you all: Would you rather have the bayonets you collect increase in value but decrease in availability, or decrease in value but increase in availability??

Personally, while I'd rather my collection didn't lose all its value, one is more an investor, and I'm in it for the joy of collecting and creating that link to history and the strange bond I feel all combatants on some level share regardless of which side they may have been on.

If any of you have REALLY looked at your bayonets, then you've noticed just how frequently the soldiers carrying them scrawled all over them, and when you're looking at the backstrap and can just start making out SGT XXXXXX, 1915, that soldier, many decades long forgotten, suddenly comes to life once more. This really interests me, and, as I doubt anyone will read this far, I'm going to try and create a new topic and see if others have noticed the same things.

Anyway, cheers lads

 

[pwcosol]

I am gobsmacked at the plethora of KS98s you posted! Am thankful to have just the one "plain Jane" V.C. SCHILLING (Crown W | 13) in my own collection. I see other German Imperial bayonets on the sideline of your photo as well. As one whom resided on the west coast of the U.S. for many years, such bayonets were few and far between... particularly those in nice condition. However, was able to accrue most of the major post-1898 variants, with a few ersatz thrown in for good measure.

Regarding your statement "Here's a question for you all: Would you rather have the bayonets you collect increase in value but decrease in availability, or decrease in value but increase in availability??", there are a lot of angles to consider. I collect because it pleases me. Before arms and bayonets, as a kid I used to build plastic model kits of armored vehicles and aircraft of both world wars, so it became a natural progression. Because I had several mentors when I began to collect arms & accessories for same, I learned many valuable lessons. The times were different then and it was easy to buy, sell or trade collectibles, so my hobby basically paid for itself (and then some). There was also a degree of "sweat equity" in my holdings as well... traveling to collector shows near (and later) far to hunt... no internet auctions or "click a mouse and buy it now" back then. So, my take is we have been (by default) in a environment for decades where if one buys wisely, over time, your holdings have increased in value due to both collector demand and dwindling availability. This is not a guarantee however. One example is what happened when the Warsaw Pact nations broke free of the Soviets. Another is when in the early 1990's the Legal importation of C & R arms was again allowed (having been banned since 1968). Some collectibles dropped considerably in value when they were imported into the USA by the thousands. Lastly, if one considers other things like economic inflation, based on what you may have spent 35 years ago for one item and factoring in inflation if sold today, the actual financial gain would equate to far less than you might imagine it to be.

 

[seitengewehr98]

I am gobsmacked at the plethora of KS98s you posted! Am thankful to have just the one "plain Jane" V.C. SCHILLING (Crown W | 13) in my own collection. I see other German Imperial bayonets on the sideline of your photo as well. As one whom resided on the west coast of the U.S. for many years, such bayonets were few and far between... particularly those in nice condition. However, was able to accrue most of the major post-1898 variants, with a few ersatz thrown in for good measure.

Regarding your statement "Here's a question for you all: Would you rather have the bayonets you collect increase in value but decrease in availability, or decrease in value but increase in availability??", there are a lot of angles to consider. I collect because it pleases me. Before arms and bayonets, as a kid I used to build plastic model kits of armored vehicles and aircraft of both world wars, so it became a natural progression. Because I had several mentors when I began to collect arms & accessories for same, I learned many valuable lessons. The times were different then and it was easy to buy, sell or trade collectibles, so my hobby basically paid for itself (and then some). There was also a degree of "sweat equity" in my holdings as well... traveling to collector shows near (and later) far to hunt... no internet auctions or "click a mouse and buy it now" back then. So, my take is we have been (by default) in a environment for decades where if one buys wisely, over time, your holdings have increased in value due to both collector demand and dwindling availability. This is not a guarantee however. One example is what happened when the Warsaw Pact nations broke free of the Soviets. Another is when in the early 1990's the Legal importation of C & R arms was again allowed (having been banned since 1968). Some collectibles dropped considerably in value when they were imported into the USA by the thousands. Lastly, if one considers other things like economic inflation, based on what you may have spent 35 years ago for one item and factoring in inflation if sold today, the actual financial gain would equate to far less than you might imagine it to be.

Thanks for the reply!

I see a 98/02 there, so that's already an advanced collection, and clearly all solid examples. Awesome cabinet too. That's something I definitely lack.

My experience mirrors yours basically: long ago, in my basement with my spray booth and 10X7R glue, putting together Tamiya and Italieri 1/35 scale vehicles and so on. Bought my first bayo from Cheaper than Dirt, and something about the smell of cosmoline and the sounds it made removing it from its scabbard, just got me hooked. Started collecting, interrupted by some monsters flying planes into things, signed up to be a teacher to help these poor, unfortunates understand that attacking my country isn't beneficial to their long term health though a liberal use of 5.56, good ol' 25 mike mike, and 120mm mortar rounds, came back, and started collecting again. Got VERY lucky with collecting mentors. Back then, outside of 3rd Reich stuff anyway, it was definitely pretty easy to have fun AND be reasonably assured what you got would increase its value, and wasn't on outright fake. Outside of the sudden discovery of a cache of bayonets (like ERSOCs from Afghanistan or British 1887s from where ever the hell that was in southeast asia), or new markets exposed to the world, supply will continue to decrease. I wonder though, I bet there are some pretty rare bayonets in the Khyber Pass, but I'm not so sure they'd take kindly to someone like me there.

You're definitely right about inflation too. Nonetheless, as much as I care to emphasize the enjoyment aspect of collecting, compared to a great number of hobbies out there it does have the added benefit of being something enjoyable that doesn't just flush funds down the toilet. Of course, if SHTF, the only value will be in their original intended use!

 

[pwcosol]

Good eye spotting the S98/02! Found this earlier post how this one came into my possession, so thought you (and others) might like to see it:

https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/s98-02-erfurt-02.60601/#post-473974

BTW, the cabinet is a LISTA "double-wide". Some years ago I and a friend used to hit many of the DRMO military base auctions in California or Nevada to acquire both these and their Stanley "VIDMAR" counterparts. Main difference is LISTA came from Europe and are made to metric dimensions. The VIDMAR is US based and made to SAE specs. Now the DRMS operates much differently. The days of sitting in a chair with a numbered paddle to bid is all but gone. However, one can still obtain them thru the DRMS...