Hello members, is the a forum section where I can look up the sub contractors company names that manufactured parts on my rifle by the markings on the rear sight and bolt? I’m doing all the research possible in detail on my first all matching K98K a Sauer assembled BCD 4. Thank you all.
J. P. Sauer und Sohn BCD 4 Markings
- Thread starter EvelDOU42
- Start date
AN-94
Well-known member
I couldn't find anything that was quick reference on the forum but if you have a copy of Karabiner 98k Volume IIb, then you can reference that which has a breakdown of each subcontractor code for Gustloff rifles. Otherwise, post the markings of the parts you want identified and we can chime in on what each one means though with yours being assembled by JP Sauer, you'll see more of the Suhl parts used rather than Gustloff subcontractors.
Thank you. I do not have the book you mentioned, I’ve been saving to buy The Backbone of the Wehrmacht because it’s been recommended to me by many collectors. I have figured out the manufacturer of the sight and its parts. It has the small cursive i and I’ve found out is Elite Diamantwerke. The waffenamt on the sight leaf was a double strike that appears to me to be an eagle over a number one. The cursive i was also double struck. The rear sight base waffenamt was also a double strike. It’s an eagle over ?? I can’t make the number out. The bolt has the serial number 8273 o is the letter block. The small eagle firing proof with a number two stamped upside down beside the firing proof. Those are the only markings on the bolt body. The extractor and ring are blank. The safety, cocking piece and bolt sleeve have the 4 digit serial number but nothing else.
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Zeppelin5000
Senior Member
Keep in mind Backbone of the Wehrmacht is outdated and contains many errors. Without looking in my copy, I couldn't tell you if the info you're looking for is complete or even correct. The books mentioned by AN-94 are by far the best books on the 98k. There are actually 3 books in a set and they're pricey since they're out of print, but they're available by individual sellers. A whole set would probably run you $800-$900, but you'd just need Vol 2b for the info you need.
AN-94
Well-known member
The "i" is Elite Diamantwerke as you said with the Eagle/1 being the waffenamt inspection team assigned to that region that includes Elite Diamantwerke. Elite Diamantwerke made rear sight components so seeing them on your rifle is fine. By 1942, most inspection was dropped from the majority of parts on the rifle compared to earlier years in an effort to simplify and increase production. JP Sauer was gearing up to produce the MP44 in 1944 and wound down production of K98ks with final production in the y block for 1944, which yours isn't far off from the end. As a result, they started using parts from Astrawerke and other subcontractors to finish up their production of K98ks. I'd need to see a picture of the bolt inspection, there should either be a E/37 or an "l" which denotes Astrawerke which started supplying more and more components towards the end of JP Sauer's K98k production.
I can’t find anything else on the bolt beyond what I mentioned. Is there anywhere you could suggest to look again? Thank you for the information
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Thank you for the information. I will look into those volumes. I want to buy the best books being disabled I have to spend wisely.
Zeppelin5000
Senior Member
Reach out here on the forum trader section, I see them pop up every so often. By the way, the authors of the books created this forum and a very active here ;-)
bda
Well-known member
If you're going to be collecting these rifles then spending the money on the books up front is well worth it. They could save you a bunch of money by not buying fakes.
Thanks, good to know
So if I’m thinking correctly, since my bolt only has the serial numbers on all the parts plus the firing proof and a 2 beside it, there’s no way to find out who made it ?
Mauserguy85
Well-known member
Yours is a fairly late example JP Sauer assembled rifle. During this timeframe, the Germans were not wasting too much time worrying about subcontracter markings, in house markings or waffenampts. Of course this varied from manufacturer and assembler to certain degrees. When it comes to JPS, they were gearing up for STG/MP44 production. K98k assembly was being fazed out entirely in late 1944. If you have no clear cut proofs on the bolt root, then yes it will be difficult to verify… but JPS produced their own bolts and bolt parts so it’s pretty safe to say that it’s a JPS produced bolt body with no marking which is normal for this time period. On my “t” block BCD 4 marked receiver finished by JPS, the matching bolt does not have a firing proof on the back of the bolt root….
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
Evel,
if you can do a photo study of the bolt & post it, some members here may be able to render an opinion on bolt maker. there are subtle differences in grinding techniques that may tip off an expert (not me) as to who made it. I’m not suggesting it’s not a Sauer bolt, just that if you seek further confirmation, more photos would be needed.
if you can do a photo study of the bolt & post it, some members here may be able to render an opinion on bolt maker. there are subtle differences in grinding techniques that may tip off an expert (not me) as to who made it. I’m not suggesting it’s not a Sauer bolt, just that if you seek further confirmation, more photos would be needed.
Do pictures if you can, if the original bolt (bcd/4) it would almost certainly be an Astrawerke bolt body with a number of subcontractors doing the bits, though assembly would be Gustloff Werke Weimar. Rifle assembly was a minor endeavor, the are basically an assembler and finisher working out a building or two, - they were a major player in big stuff, the USSBS goes into detail but trivia for most rifle collectors.
I should add that Astrawerk bolt bodies were use by others, Astrawerke and Gustloff were a product of the nature of the national socialist state, - loot private property and subsidize creating an artificial industrial concern. The nazis (a term enemies created) were fanatical socialists, far right only by a redefining the traditional meaning based upon a geocidal nationalism, economically they were leftist that worshiped the state...
Mauserguy85
Well-known member
***Correction.
After just examining my later JPS collection. My “t” block bcd 4 marked receiver actually has a astrawerke bolt body (stamped “1” on the bottom of the root) and has the typical, but faint JPS firing proof on the back.
My “u” block ce44 also has a astrawerke (1) supplied bolt and much more subcontractor (like “i” for Elite D.) marked parts than my earlier examples.
My ce44 “r” block is the oddity in which it has a sloppy solder on the rear sight sleeve, an unmarked bolt body and no firing proof on the back of the bolt root. It has what appears to be a capital “M” on back of the bolt root. I know Mauser Oberndorf bolt bodies have the “MI” on the rear lug, but this one has me stumped as it’s on the back of the bolt root, just the “M” and no FP.
Ar43 receiver finished by Sauer in 44 “c” block. The bolt exhibits poor finishing. Some kind of mark on the bottom of the root and typical JPS firing proof on the back.
I’ve included some pics of the markings/features on these bolts….
First 5 are the “r” block. Next 3 are the bcd4. Last 3 are the ar43…
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Thank you Sir for that very detailed and informative post. I’ve included all 4 sides of my bolt to show it in detail.
