M1907 Chinese Contract Mauser (German Issued)

chrisftk

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Staff member
Hi all,

Brought this one home today. I believe it flew below the radar on Gunbroker given the relatively low price it went for.(and this is a pretty esoteric model, so some didn't realize what it was)

There is not a lot written about these, but from what I know; the genesis of these rifles was a contract with the Qing Empire. The initial order was placed for rifles chambered in a proprietary 6.8mm Chinese round. Some were delivered, but after the 1912 revolution, the Republic of China continued interest in the rifle, but instead geared up for domestic production and did not pay Mauser for the remainder of the contract rifles. Hence, they remained in inventory until later in 1914.

According to Storz, approximately 12,000 chinese model rifles were sitting in Mauser's inventory in 1914 when war broke out. The German military was in the midst of a severe weapon shortage upon mobilization and were looking for anything they could get. The Chinese rifles were provided to the Prussian military, who contracted Oskar Will of Venus Waffenwerke, a specialist in rifle conversions (he also was responsible for the 88/14 rifles) Will converted the rifles to 8x57 S Patrone and the rifles went to the newly raised 4 1/2 Reserve corps. (I have heard that these went to Württemberg units, but I cannot find any documentation to that effect, so I'm going with Storz assertion that they went to Prussian units.)These German rifles are quite rare in any condition

(Side note: There were another 10,000 Paraguayan rifles at Mauser as well, but they used a shorter action not conducive to German use. These were sent to the Ottomans)

The rifle itself is rough, but the stock maintains good markings. Proofing is commercial. The front band is a completely different style, as is the bayonet lug. The handguard covers the rear sight similar to other export models. The rear sight is staked at 400 meters (modified by the Germans)

The barrel, receiver, trigger guard, ejector and rear band match. The stock appears to match, but the action screws are frozen, so I have not confirmed.

The floorplate, handguard and bolt do not match. (The bolt is a Gew98 one; The factory bolt on these is a teardrop style bolt similar to the Ottoman 1903, but full length) The rest of parts are unnumbered.

The stock has an unknown acceptance cartouche (Mauser in-house stamping?)and Mauser Banner/Powder keg on the right stock. There is also a Mauser "MW" stamp and imperial crown at the wrist. There are keel stamps but they are illegible.

There is minimal written about how the rifle performed, but some anecdotal evidence mentions an issue with the firing pin spring and some grumbling in the ranks that they did not receive "real" Gew98s.

In any case I'm happy I was able to find one. Interesting side note and a rare substitute model.


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Very nice rifle, though I know next to nothing about them... I suspect I have a great deal of company! Jon Speed might have sent me some trivia on these, I will try and check tomorrow. Or Thursday...

I think that the situation in China, and Turkey is a fascinating subject, - and Jon Speed is one of the best authorities on this relationship when it comes to WMO relationship with these countries.
 
Very nice rifle, though I know next to nothing about them... I suspect I have a great deal of company! Jon Speed might have sent me some trivia on these, I will try and check tomorrow. Or Thursday...

I think that the situation in China, and Turkey is a fascinating subject, - and Jon Speed is one of the best authorities on this relationship when it comes to WMO relationship with these countries.
Thanks Paul! I'll admit, my knowledge is more of less limited to the 1 or 2 pages Storz mentioned, plus a little internet research I did. There is very little out there (as to be expected on such modest production)

The relationship of Mauser and China was interesting, especially given that Hitler eventually sided with the Japanese, despite the deep ties Germany had traditionally had with China. (Though given the chaotic state of China at the time, you can't blame him!)

In many ways, these are like the diverted Portuguese rifles in WW2, though the Portuguese were outright diverted whereas these were essentially abandoned by China.
Nice example of a scarce rifle
Thanks buddy! Now to find you one.

Nice find and fascinating story! (That 1914 Gew looks familiar!)
Thanks Charles!

Indeed-- I am eternally grateful you were willing to part with it! One of my favorites!

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to add to the talks on G98 site in Regards to 1914 China models here are the actual definitive docs that tell the story. In 1913 China Ordered 12,000 rifles in 6.8. by the time they were made WW1 was starting so even export contract weapons were taken over into German service direct from the Dealers who had made the deals with China Carlowitz in Hamburg. The Mauser 1913 Order list that shows 12,000 China 6.8 Model 07. Then hand written notes from Mauser firm Cartel files that shows the China Carlowitz rifles . These rifles were taken over by Germans as noted in note in period 5.11.14 to 1.12.14. The rifles had New barrels for 8mm put on by Spandau Arsenal etc. Same thing happened with 10,100 Paraguay 7.65 rifles that were taken by Spandau and shipped to Turkey. Ok hope this helps the story . Regards, Jon
 

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As a personal note Chris, you were lucky with that rifle. I ignored it and never looked at it because the title description had K98k in it. Now I realize the seller was using that as "bait" to attract more bidders, but in reality he hurt himself because myself and several others I know ignored it due to that. You got it for a VERY reasonable price in my opinion!

I would be interested in seeing the barrel markings on this rifle if you would take the time.
 
to add to the talks on G98 site in Regards to 1914 China models here are the actual definitive docs that tell the story. In 1913 China Ordered 12,000 rifles in 6.8. by the time they were made WW1 was starting so even export contract weapons were taken over into German service direct from the Dealers who had made the deals with China Carlowitz in Hamburg. The Mauser 1913 Order list that shows 12,000 China 6.8 Model 07. Then hand written notes from Mauser firm Cartel files that shows the China Carlowitz rifles . These rifles were taken over by Germans as noted in note in period 5.11.14 to 1.12.14. The rifles had New barrels for 8mm put on by Spandau Arsenal etc. Same thing happened with 10,100 Paraguay 7.65 rifles that were taken by Spandau and shipped to Turkey. Ok hope this helps the story . Regards, Jon

Thanks Nathaniel! This is very interesting. So Storz had it wrong on Oskar Will/Venus Waffenwerke doing the conversion? Or were some done by him and others at Spandau. Interesting

As a personal note Chris, you were lucky with that rifle. I ignored it and never looked at it because the title description had K98k in it. Now I realize the seller was using that as "bait" to attract more bidders, but in reality he hurt himself because myself and several others I know ignored it due to that. You got it for a VERY reasonable price in my opinion!

I would be interested in seeing the barrel markings on this rifle if you would take the time.

Thanks, I was a bit surprised there wasn't more activity. I called dibs with some of my circle of friends (those who would know what it is), but was surprised more folks didn't bid. It was poorly listed though, to your point. I agree, seller shot himself in the foot with his clickbait title.

I'm wrestling with the action screws, but once I get them unfrozen, I'll post barrel pics. Hoping the kroil did its work while I went into the office.



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Thanks Nathaniel! This is very interesting. So Storz had it wrong on Oskar Will/Venus Waffenwerke doing the conversion? Or were some done by him and others at Spandau. Interesting
That I do not know. I can only speculate that given the enormous amount of work that Spandau would have been flooded with they would have likely farmed some of it out? That is one of the reasons I am interested in seeing the barrel markings. First to see if any original Oberndorf markings remain, what additional markings may have been added, and in general to see what we can learn.

When I visited Springfield Armory, they had several rifles that were converted "contract" Mausers that were obtained in or around Germany after WWI. Unfortunately the curator would not let me take them apart. :googlie

Thanks, I was a bit surprised there wasn't more activity. I called dibs with some of my circle of friends (those who would know what it is), but was surprised more folks didn't bid. It was poorly listed though, to your point. I agree, seller shot himself in the foot with his clickbait title.

That he did! Glad you wound up with it!

I'm wrestling with the action screws, but once I get them unfrozen, I'll post barrel pics. Hoping the kroil did its work while I went into the office.

Do you have a pencil torch or an adjustable MAPP torch? I have found that a light application of Kroil, letting it sit for 24 hrs, another light application of Kroil, then a quick touch of the torch, will almost always break the screws free. This takes a steady hand, the slightest misstep will oxidize whatever remains of the oil finish if you miss or veer off course.

I once ruined the stock of a near mint bolt mismatch Brazilian 1908 because the buyer insisted the rifle be taken apart for shipping. The screwdriver blade broke and I gouged the wood and metal. Furious would be an understatement. Every stubborn screw gets kroil and heat.
 
(I have heard that these went to Württemberg units, but I cannot find any documentation to that effect, so I'm going with Storz assertion that they went to Prussian units.)

In one of the Württemberg regimental history books the use of foreign (Chinese) rifles is mentioned. Have to dig it out.
Something like: The soldiers were very happy when they were equipped with the G98 rifles and got rid of the Chinese junk.

BTW: GREAT rifle!
 
That I do not know. I can only speculate that given the enormous amount of work that Spandau would have been flooded with they would have likely farmed some of it out? That is one of the reasons I am interested in seeing the barrel markings. First to see if any original Oberndorf markings remain, what additional markings may have been added, and in general to see what we can learn.

When I visited Springfield Armory, they had several rifles that were converted "contract" Mausers that were obtained in or around Germany after WWI. Unfortunately the curator would not let me take them apart. :googlie

Every stubborn screw gets kroil and heat.

Thanks for the tip. They were still frozen today when I got home, so I applied more penetrating oil and will give it done heat tomorrow.

I'm more determined than ever to see the barrel markings.


In one of the Württemberg regimental history books the use of foreign (Chinese) rifles is mentioned. Have to dig it out.
Something like: The soldiers were very happy when they were equipped with the G98 rifles and got rid of the Chinese junk.

BTW: GREAT rifle!

Thank you! Very interesting on Württemberg soldiers. I heard something similar anecdotally, but I'd love to see actual documentation.

Also, I've attached a couple pics of the rear sight, which I neglected to do yesterday in my excitement. As mentioned, the sight is staked to 400 meters to match the minimum of the Gew98.

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Very cool rifle Chris, thanks for all the details. Here are some pages from a book when your rifle was new!
 

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A new Jon Speed discovery

Paul, I made New find out of Mauser firm Office Copy book.! We all heard some how China obtained some 71/84 rifles and now we have Confirmation on 6600 Units sent to Mauser firm China Rep in Hamburg Carlowitz in 1892. Ammo was also ordered from the Metal Patrone Fabrik in Karlsruhe.
 

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I would be interested in seeing the barrel markings on this rifle if you would take the time.

All, here are the markings below the wood.

Stock matches and looks like an original barrel commercial WMO that was bored up to 8mm? Could give credence to Oskar Will's group doing the work on this one.

Also noticed the front band spring was a military replacement.

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