Marking on 29/40
- Thread starter Icarus8383
- Start date
Icarus8383
Well-known member
Absolut
Senior Member
It might be me, but the serial numbers both on receiver, barrel and bolt look odd. The digit "2" is of a different font than the one in our picture library. Compare yourself here: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?25451-G-29-40-660-1940-Radom-Crest-Wz-Line-out
Also note that the serial number on the barrel and receiver have strange miscoloration/aura circles around them (I'm not a native speaker, but I hope you got what I wanted to say), and the bolt handle looks ground and re-struck - plus the bolt assembly of your rifle is not serialized to the rifle and has the - for what I know - Yugo circled "Z" on the safety.
Also note that the serial number on the barrel and receiver have strange miscoloration/aura circles around them (I'm not a native speaker, but I hope you got what I wanted to say), and the bolt handle looks ground and re-struck - plus the bolt assembly of your rifle is not serialized to the rifle and has the - for what I know - Yugo circled "Z" on the safety.
What you have there is probably a Kreigsmarine Depot assembled K98k rifle. All of these I have seen have an M preceding the serial number with a slightly different firing proof eagle, usually followed by N for Nord fleet. Post some photos of the KM disc marking, might it possibly match the serial of the rifle? Others do on the depot assembled guns. The bolt appears restamped and not original (but these bolts are usually crude so it may be original), bands an other parts would be numbered as well. I'd like to see more images (with better detail) of the rest of the parts.
Pics of another Navy depot rifle:
Pics of another Navy depot rifle:
Attachments
mauser99
Senior Member
Interesting rifle. I had another member who cant post photos tell me he has the proofs on his. I also found another and its twin was found in Denmark built similar but, Had different proof marks. There was Im sure more than one depot. Can you try to post more clear photos like the 1st one you posted.
Details of stock markings ect. Bolt could be re-claimed ? The safety is Czech. Many of these fell into the depot system.
NOTE: I see farb added a shot of the rifle I found.
Details of stock markings ect. Bolt could be re-claimed ? The safety is Czech. Many of these fell into the depot system.
NOTE: I see farb added a shot of the rifle I found.
The rifle (barreled receiver) looks fine to me, this rifle variation is not SDP made, these are rifles made from components that were supplied to the KM (navy) and that were subsequently assembled into rifles. Therefore these rifles come in many different forms with slight variations in make up and how they are marked. The serialing format can vary widely, often they have "m" prefixes and often "N" suffixes, one can assume m=marine or navy, with N=North Sea. But several have neither a prefix or suffix like this one.
One would have to see the stock to know if this is an original stock, which is incredibly rare to find for this variation. Almost all do not have original stocks, but I would think the stock would not have the normal G.29/40 markings, as these were not made by Steyr, so they would have a ordnance depot pattern to them.
As for the KM relationship with this rifle, that is obvious, the G.29/40 was from beginning to end destined to the KM, the only reason some went to the Army (Heer) is because SDP had to divert some to make up for shortfalls in production.
Bottom line, the OP needs to a lot more pictures, but this style of FP is typical of the variation and the abnormalities of the serial fonts is not inconsistent with this variation.
One would have to see the stock to know if this is an original stock, which is incredibly rare to find for this variation. Almost all do not have original stocks, but I would think the stock would not have the normal G.29/40 markings, as these were not made by Steyr, so they would have a ordnance depot pattern to them.
As for the KM relationship with this rifle, that is obvious, the G.29/40 was from beginning to end destined to the KM, the only reason some went to the Army (Heer) is because SDP had to divert some to make up for shortfalls in production.
Bottom line, the OP needs to a lot more pictures, but this style of FP is typical of the variation and the abnormalities of the serial fonts is not inconsistent with this variation.
I agree, more pictures, - also agree about the bolt, it is suspect, but they vary widely on known examples, most using the last two digits for the serial (not last three). It also looks different in fonts than normal, but because these are depot rifles almost anything is possible.
Icarus8383
Well-known member
Thanks to all of you for your information and replies.
I would love to send more pictures but due to the fact I am not (yet) the owner, I can't. I have the opportunity to buy it, and probably will during the next weekend.
I will check the disc if there are any markings related to a depot. Any other hints for me?
I would love to send more pictures but due to the fact I am not (yet) the owner, I can't. I have the opportunity to buy it, and probably will during the next weekend.
I will check the disc if there are any markings related to a depot. Any other hints for me?
The important thing to remember is the stock, it should be fairly sterile externally, only along the bottom of the butt should it have markings, usually ordnance codes and waffenamts, - most are Menzel (C) stocks, but a Brno (dot) stock is possible. The stock should be serialed internally and in every confirmed case the take down carries the serial number. The stock is incredibly important to value, these are rare with matching stocks and a number have been recorded with humped stocks, most trying to mimic a normal SDP made G.29/40.
I doubt the bolt is original, but is possible, most that are known are former Polish bolts, which is typical of a normal G.29/40, so look to the bottom flat for a bunch of queer markings, odd symbols and a wildly confused pattern. This will not prove it legit, but it would increase the odds. Look for Polish metal, pretty much the whole rifle should be Polish metal, like a normal G.29/40. German components are possible too, the KM were at the bottom of the list for supplies, which is true 1914-1945, so they do tend to be frugal on rifles, they saved and recycled a lot of parts and their depot rifles are often a diverse menagerie of components.
Good luck!
I doubt the bolt is original, but is possible, most that are known are former Polish bolts, which is typical of a normal G.29/40, so look to the bottom flat for a bunch of queer markings, odd symbols and a wildly confused pattern. This will not prove it legit, but it would increase the odds. Look for Polish metal, pretty much the whole rifle should be Polish metal, like a normal G.29/40. German components are possible too, the KM were at the bottom of the list for supplies, which is true 1914-1945, so they do tend to be frugal on rifles, they saved and recycled a lot of parts and their depot rifles are often a diverse menagerie of components.
Good luck!
mauser99
Senior Member
Now you know in this might be in your favor.. Others thinking its bad or fake. But, that never seemed to stop anyone before paying huge sums of money for junk !
So you just never know. These are very scarce but, also collectors often overpay for polish crested receivers cause they look cool.So be smart and have a go at it.... There is another out there its twin I was told privately.
Icarus8383
Well-known member
Icarus8383
Well-known member
Icarus8383
Well-known member
Icarus8383
Well-known member
Obviously the stock is not original, though we suspected that earlier. I doubt the bolt is period either, it certainly is not typical, though it could be some postwar addition, the French often used the last three digits on bolts. The bolt body is originally from a wartime Amberg made G98. Typically the Germans used the full numeric serial even on reworks, so it is improbable that the bolt was mated to the rifle during WWII, though with the KM armorers anything is possible.
Perhaps the rifle served in France (German naval installation) and the French took possession of the rifle. But that doesn't explain the stock, I would think if the french replaced the stock they would have serialed it too. Maybe a restored sporter or someone restored a mismatched rifle, - Germany has humpers too, as does all of Europe.
Perhaps the rifle served in France (German naval installation) and the French took possession of the rifle. But that doesn't explain the stock, I would think if the french replaced the stock they would have serialed it too. Maybe a restored sporter or someone restored a mismatched rifle, - Germany has humpers too, as does all of Europe.
Icarus8383
Well-known member
I just bought another one of those Kriegsmarine rifles.
The bolt is not matching to the other parts (but matching itself) and a polish one with WaA77.
The other parts are matching (little exception: under the trigger is only a similar number).
The stock has no markings with the exception of one WaA 623-stamp.
Overall not in the best shape.
The bolt is not matching to the other parts (but matching itself) and a polish one with WaA77.
The other parts are matching (little exception: under the trigger is only a similar number).
The stock has no markings with the exception of one WaA 623-stamp.
Overall not in the best shape.
Attachments
Last edited: