Mauser/1907 Radfahrer-gewehr98

C

CommanderRN

Member
I have just acquired Gew 98 MAUSER Serial No 184 of 1907 Oberndorf production. It has all matching numbers. A bit of a change from my usual 1917 Enfield to shoot! Previous owner had thought it was a rahdfahrer item as it has a turned down bolt handle which is the same number as every other numbered part so not a replacement. The under side of the ball is flat with cross hatching. It has a standard sling arrangement however. The Butt disc is marked 56 R. 7.109.Please point me in the direction of the right thread to send this info to!
Cheers
Eoin Sloan Cdr RN
 
Welcome, I moved the post to its own thread, - for the rifle to be a Radfahrergewehr98 it would have to have a side sling arrangement along with a bent bolt/cutout. Generally these are very rare rifles, a handful known in original condition (less actually), though as the distinguishing features consist of the stock primarily, and bolt, there could be former rifles not identified out there.

The known "original" ones are all 1914 dated, both Spandau made, but it is possible older rifles were rework to this configuration. This was an old topic that the only "good" information was provided by CB (Waprüf2): http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?10100

For the possibility of older rifles converted, see Bob Jensen's articles in Present Arms and the KCN from the 1980's.

Anyway, it doesn't sound like a bicyclists rifle, but why not do some pictures of yours. Perhaps CB or someone that bought Noel's example can offer some thoughts on your rifle.. the rifles rarity is compounded by the fact the two known in original configuration have not been photographed well. Other than Mike's stock, good pictures of one has never happened on the internet.
 
Is there a bolt clearance cut on the left side?

FWIW many years ago at a rinky-dink show in Rangeley ME I saw an extremely rough G98 fitted with a matching SN K98a bolt. It was grossly overpriced at the time and I did not check it to see if the bolt carried the same proofing as the receiver. IIRC the bolt SN suffix did match the receiver SN and suffix; don't recall if the font matched or if the disc was marked or not.

Some published photos of Colonials and descriptions thereof show/describe specimens with K98a bolts but there is no indication if the bolt matches or not.
 
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Mauser Gew98

Very interesting this ties in with my own opinion. Whatever it is however every numbered part I have sighted has the same matching number; Barrel, Receiver, Bolt, Nose piece. The barrel is S marked as one would expect for 1907 If someone can tell me the full list of all the numbered parts I will do a thorough audit however.The stock is NOT relieved in way of the bolt handle. I had hoped the Butt Disc would have given us some clue.
The gun shoots well if somewhat high as I expected with PPU 198 FMJBT Match rounds (around 20" at 200 yards).
I will try to take some photos - and then learn how to attach them!
 
The stock should be numbered also, under the butt behind the wrist. Also, can you do pics of the stock proofs on the bolt side of the stock?
 
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Got my copy of Dieter Storz book this morning and have had a quick look at the section giving what should be marked and how (full number or last digits). Without stripping I can add the butt plate to the matching numbers and the visible front and rear trigger guard screws, the S calibrated sight and the bolt latch. The bolt itself is definitely carbine shape and the number is matching and the markings on the under side seem to match others on the gun. Any markings on the wood of the stock are illegible. Has it been re-stocked - difficult to tell. Interestingly when the bolt is closed there is a 9mm (3/8") gap between the flat side of the bolt knob and the wood of the stock - unless wearing gloves there is NO need for a cutaway.
Photos are delayed as I do my photography out side and it is pouring with rain.....
 
Hello,

interesting thread. Would love to hear more about these G98 with K98a bolts.


Just for some more information the unit markings are from the "Infanterie-Regiment Vogel von Falckenstein (7. Westfälisches) Nr. 56".
So not a unit where a Radfahrergewehr 98 would be used.



With kind regards

Vincent
 
Spartaner545 said:
Hello,

interesting thread. Would love to hear more about these G98 with K98a bolts.


Just for some more information the unit markings are from the "Infanterie-Regiment Vogel von Falckenstein (7. Westfälisches) Nr. 56".
So not a unit where a Radfahrergewehr 98 would be used.



With kind regards

Vincent
Click to expand...

..Unless they had a Radfahrer company...

In any case, we can rule out a standard Rdf since they weren't produced until later.
 
If it is under the top cover I will look tomorrow - I am not into barrel removal at the moment as too busy other wise. I only used the radfahrer connotation as that is what the guy I bought it from thought it might be - I did not buy it because I thought it was a radfahrer version. The 1907 date is interesting as at that time they were looking at a solution to the problems with the short barrel carbine model. I note the number is a low number for the year as no prefix letter. The book M98 1898 to1918 does show Gew98 with turn down bolts and merely comments 'unusual'.
Thanks also for the regimental reference details!
 
CommanderRN said:
If it is under the top cover I will look tomorrow - I am not into barrel removal at the moment as too busy other wise. I only used the radfahrer connotation as that is what the guy I bought it from thought it might be - I did not buy it because I thought it was a radfahrer version. The 1907 date is interesting as at that time they were looking at a solution to the problems with the short barrel carbine model. I note the number is a low number for the year as no prefix letter. The book M98 1898 to1918 does show Gew98 with turn down bolts and merely comments 'unusual'.
Thanks also for the regimental reference details!
Click to expand...

Clarification: Barrel removal not required to check internal stock number; stock number is stamped into the barrel channel of the stock. All you have to do is get the stock off.
 
Results: Trigger guard matches 184. Fore end is 5332. And also many thanks to Vincent for regimental details all followed up on Wiki Germany.
 
MAUSER 1907 #184
The existence of Gew98 with turn down bolts is well known but unexplained to German archivists. 1907 in particular was when the development of the LONG carbine replacement was in hand and I think that Mauser tried out turn down bolts on Gew98 rifles to get comments. The differences and lack of interchangeability with the Carbine receiver seems illogical anyway and I suspect Mauser felt this too. Giving the REPLACEMENT LONG Kar98 and the Gew98 the same receiver would have been an obvious move.
 
Today in bright sunlight I have found the stock markings using a jewler's loup to give me a really close look - very faint and almost lost in the wood grain but they are there... Cannot read them but will try...
 
Just a wrap up on matters to date: (A) The stock marking is very faint but is the entwined W of Kaiser Wilhelm II. of Prussia (B). Following up Vincent's deciphering of the Identity Disc No. 56 regiment was Westfalian so in Armeekorps III which was issued with Gew 98 in 1907 so that fits.(C) In summary it is (bar the fore end wood hand guard) an all numbers matching 1907 Gew 98 with turn down bolt with flat chequered under side.
I have replaced two missing lock screws and the cleaning rod. The sling leather is non original but the rear link is an original one.
No fotos yet as the weather in my part of UK has been foul and I have been busy. For reference I have been using the book M98 Rifle and Carbine by Dieter Storz. Pub 2006 by Verlag Militaria, Vienna ISBN 3-902526-05-X
 
Mauser K98

Very interesting results from two outings to Bisley with the 1907 K98 (the one with the turn down bolt which we now know is not a 'Bicyle Brigade model'); First outing with visibly clean barrel produced very erratic dispersion of points of impact using PPU 8 x 57. Second outing again PPU - a different batch - completely different and good tight grouping.
 
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